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Old 07-13-2004, 19:52   #1 (permalink)
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Paging all Clevo rebuilders.. some advice on parts for a rebuild

OK, so I'm picking up the engine on Saturday and I haven't even got an engine stand in which to put it (Thursday night for that one!). Tom Monroe's book is winging its merry way to me from Amazon in the US, so no doubt that will help me out too. Yes, I'm getting *WAY* ahead of myself, and seeing as I have the capacity to bugger up a perfectly good spark plug changing exercise, this is going to be... interesting...

So, what's the project? A 351 Cleveland from an early ZH Marquis. 4-barrell, totally stock, the usual. The plan is to install this engine, post re-build, into my ZH 500. Requirements?

1. Straight LPG. Some may baulk, others will chastise and more will say "bloody idiot", but LPG it is.
2. Reliablility is key. I don't want a crazy cam in there with an idle that rocks the entire car 3-feet in every direction at traffic lights.
3. Power is required, but not a huge amount. I want 1 bhp per cube at the crank and a fair dollop of torque... no idea what that equates to at the wheels, but it's my yardstick.

In case it's not already obvious, my car isn't going to be blasted down the quarter-mile. It won't be a tow car either. I just want something with a bit of grunt - enough to pull a ZH around, and enough to have a little bit of fun when the mood takes me. Call it a cruiser with a bit of poke...

Given that the engine was running (pretty well, actually) recently, what would you good people recommend for it? I have a few ideas in my own head, but I know slightly less than feck-all and you lot know more. Costs are always an issue, so no titanium rods or anything like that, please!

Thanking you. :)
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Old 07-13-2004, 21:50   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Paging all Clevo rebuilders.. some advice on parts for a rebuild

* 302C heads
* Performer manifold
* Impco 425 gas carby on Holley 850 squarebore baseplate
* enhance with cold air induction, eg a shaker
* electronic dissy recurved to suit gas
* spark plugs (ie colder and narrower to suit lpg). See related threads.
* Tri-Y extractors thru single 2.5" or dual 2" system
* Cam Dynamics cam (part number 972227). Hydraulic, good idle & great economy. Ideal grind for Cleveland on gas. Heaps of torque. Enough for even a ZH tank.

http://www.cranecams.com.au/caminfo/fordcl7082.htm
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Old 07-13-2004, 22:55   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Paging all Clevo rebuilders.. some advice on parts for a rebuild

Rhett:

Your pretty much on the money, but I'd suggest a little bit more work to reach the desired goal of 360 odd HP.

To add to the above,
Well balanced bottom end
Port work (not heaps)
definetly 4 into 1's
bigger exhaust (possibly dual 2 1/2")
bit wilder camshaft, you can afford to with lpg

Anyone else got any ideas?
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Old 07-13-2004, 23:23   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Paging all Clevo rebuilders.. some advice on parts for a rebuild

Have you thought about the 302 rod/351 crank on the ACL pistons option. Lots of torque on offer here!
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Old 07-13-2004, 23:27   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Paging all Clevo rebuilders.. some advice on parts for a rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by paull
Have you thought about the 302 rod/351 crank on the ACL pistons option. Lots of torque on offer here!
Yep - thought of that one. Depends on how far the rest of my spending goes!

As for the other tips, the more the merrier. Sounds like most of the work required to hit my goal will be on the top of the motor, which is good enough for me!
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Old 07-13-2004, 23:47   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Paging all Clevo rebuilders.. some advice on parts for a rebuild

You'll definatly need a much bigger cam than you'd think to get that sort of power out of LPG.... Remembering LPG will detune the cam 10% or so off the cams specs (compared to petrol) but as a bonus LPG makes the car much softer at idle so they sort of cancel themselves out there!

I'd be budgeting for a dual GRA carb setup too because there's a fair chance the impco will run out of puff up high, but i'd try an impco before spending the 2500 or so a GRA setup costs. I'd also get a single plane intake manifold like a weiand x-cellerator rather than a dual plane performer...
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Old 07-13-2004, 23:50   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Paging all Clevo rebuilders.. some advice on parts for a rebuild

Get your valves guides replaced with a set of spiralled bronze guides, as gas is a very dry fuel.
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Old 07-14-2004, 06:20   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Paging all Clevo rebuilders.. some advice on parts for a rebuild

Sorry, I forgot Stellite inserts for the exhaust valves to handle the higher cylinder temps of gas.

Gents, I was under the impression that this was a budget build.
To help us spend your money wisely, what is your budget Neeek?


360 flywheel HP isn't hard to achieve with a 3.5" standard stroke Cleveland.

The ACL pistons on 302 rods is fine, but increases the cost quite a bit over stock, and the benefits of longer (heavier) rods are debatable. I think the pistons alone are around the $450 range, plus you'll need a set of 302 rods. Then there's the sizing of the ends, unless you can guarantee that the caps haven't been swapped around. I'd rather spend the money on a set of bolt-on roller rockers.

Balancing is always nice, but is the extra expense really necessary if the redline will be around 5000, as there's rarely any extra torque to be found about that. Remember Neeek is looking for a strong street motor with maximum torque in the lowest possible revs to push a heavy ZH, not a 7500 RPM animal streeter that will rarely achieve max torque on the street.

I also believe that choosing 4 into 1s will cost torque. I'd stick with Pacemaker Tri-Ys. I also wouldn't go too big on the primaries, otherwise the pulsing/sucking effect will not be as evident at lower revs. These are just my thoughts, but I could be wrong.

xdc351, what did you means by . . . "Remembering LPG will detune the cam 10% or so off the cams specs (compared to petrol)"? I've never heard this before and am interested in what you base this statement on.
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Old 07-14-2004, 15:52   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Paging all Clevo rebuilders.. some advice on parts for a rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett
Gents, I was under the impression that this was a budget build.
To help us spend your money wisely, what is your budget Neeek?
Yeah, I was kinda worried when xcd351's talking about two and a half grand for a bloody carby. Don't care how good it is, but that's probably more than the cost of the work I want to do on the engine (not counting the LPG system)! In fact, my budget was going to be dictated largely by what I saw on this thread. Taking all recommendations and then pricing the lot up or something.

Let's say that seeing as I spent so little on the car in the first place *cough* $1,300 */cough*, I'd not be looking to spend big $s on it. This will be a budget engine rebuild probably - doing the bare minimum unless I'm feeling spendy... oooh, but tax returns are coming up aren't they..! No, bad Neeek...
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Old 07-14-2004, 16:42   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Paging all Clevo rebuilders.. some advice on parts for a rebuild

Hehe, Fair enough... I wouldn't want to spend my budget on a GRA setup either! The impco should be fine.

I stand by my reccomendation for the single plane manifold... Your not towing and midrange is where I like the most kick. Becides with LPG there isn't the low down flat spots normally associated with single plane manifolds because its already a vapour. I'd also want the tallest spacer I could fit under my hood too.

But don't just take my word for it: http://www.gasresearchpc.com.au/html/lpg_system.html

Rhett, LPG has less energy than petrol, advancing the timing can only help so much. To make the same amount of power you need to burn about 10% more fuel and to get that extra fuel in there you need a bigger cam.

This information was given to me verbally by GRA and echoed by both COME and Wade cams when quoteing a custom mechanical cam for my setup.
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Last edited by xdc351; 07-14-2004 at 16:55.
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