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Spacer kit for 351C to 400C

10K views 25 replies 10 participants last post by  curt79 
#1 ·
Hello to all on the forum.
As many of you are aware, I am going to transplant a 400C into my XD. I have a Weiand X-celerator single plane manifold on the 351C. I would like to use the same manifold on the 400C but will need a spacer kit to account for the extra width of the Taller 400C block. I believe Weiand make a spacer kit for this purpose but getting no joy so far.
Has anyone else managed to get the spacer kit (Weiand PN 8205)? If you could tell me where you found the kit. I would be very grateful.
Cheers
Craig
 
#2 ·
hi, i have a set, they cost me $330 plus freight from western aust, i will lend them to anyone in return for a couple of sets. when you buy them, they require a lot of port matching, as they are quite crap. if you want to see them, do it soon, as they will be going back in soon.
 
#3 ·
Couldn't you just make some ? 351's and 400's are both 90 degree V8's aren't they?.
I did just that for my 351 windsor with clevo heads, to allow me to use the clevo manifold. It worked out to be 10mm Alum plate. All I did was took the plates (cut to size) to the local engineering shop with the 4V gaskets and got 'em to lazer cut the port holes out. $120 bucks off memory. They could also mill it, or drill it, if they didn't have a laser cutter.
 
#7 ·
Hello TruBlu351 and Clevo400.
Yes TruBlu351, that is the same spacer kit.
Cleve400, how current is your information? I checked several weeks ago and Summit stated that the spacer kit was a discontinued line. Several other parts retailers state the same thing. I don't think Weiand are making them anymore-although their web site still features the adapter plates.
Price motorsports in the US sell a similar set of adapter plates but they are at least $250 US!
Thanks again.
Craig
 
#8 ·
SORRY, I now deal with a company called JEGS who stock them in their catalogue at $109 USD (JEGS similar to Summit). Look them up. They price match Summit on everything. Their catalogue is usually $1 cheaper than SUmmit for starters. U r correct Summit said they would order me on in but at $50 USD freight I went elsewhere who had them in stock.
 
#10 ·
TruBlu351 said:
Is this what you're after? Says 400M though. Not too sure of differences.
As we all know, there is no such thing as a 400M or, for that matter, a 400C. There is only the 400.

The reason for manifold matching is because of the days of the 4bbl intakes that were only available on the 4V 351C and then, later were followed by off-the-shelf 4bbl intakes for 400s. The very small ports of the 400 cylinder heads were appropriate reasons for making the spacer ports small.

The best thing for a 400 is a good set of large valve 2V or 4V heads combined with a good manifold like a Strip Dominator and a 750+ CFM carburetor and a stout flat tappet or mechanical roller camshaft, flat tops and reconditioned internals with ARP studs on the heads, mains and ARP rod bolts. A good addition is a set of 4340 I-beams to get the crank around a bit easier.

:davis:
 
#12 ·
Thanks very much Gentlemen for all your replies. I appreciate the effort a great deal.
Thanks for pointing me to JEGS Clevo400. Will be useful in the future.
Hello Davis. Pleased to meet you. Always a pleasure to read your posts. Rightly, the 400 is just that, a 400.
If you don't mind Davis I have one question to ask you on a 400. Currently I have a set of 302 closed chamber 2V heads. I would like to use these heads on my 400. If I use flat top pistons with the 302 heads the CR will be >11.0? This is what I have been told. If I were to use stock pistons what would be the approx. CR using the same 302 heads. I am running straight propane gas and I believe higher compressions are possible with this fuel (up to 11.0:1). Any advice would be most welcome.
Cheers
Craig
 
#13 ·
Reason I call it a 400C is no-one in Australia knows what a Ford 400 engine is or a 351M is or a Ford 300 6 cylinder is for that fact. Best left as a 400 Clevo that way most people understand (in OZ anyway) !!! Talked about the 400 to a performance shop and he thought it was a Stroker !!! Rang again about a C6 stallie for my 400 and he didn't have a clue. Tried to sell me a C4 then a FMX stallie. Told him it was a 429-460 C6 and he didn't believe me.
I will find the article from 1972 which has a blurb about Ford Australia considering slotting a 400 into the XY (don't know if they wrote 400, 400C or 400M). Bout the same time Bill Bourke put the 427 (i think) into his black XY.
Oh memories !!!
 
#16 ·
Hello 400Clevo.
It seems a shame not to give the 400 a title. It makes the engine an orphan. The 400 already gets a hard time of it as it is. You are right 400Clevo about nobody here knowing about the 400. My engine rebuilder stated "400 what?" when I first talked about this motor as a alternative to a stroker 351 Cleveland. I keep sending him all this information and I can see his eyes lighting up and hear his mind ticking over with the possibilities of the 400.

The Holley Strip Dominator looks a great single plane inlet manifold. Perfect for lpg. But I already had my Weiand X-celerator and it works well with lpg.
But well worth keeping in mind in case the spacers do not live up to their potential.
Thanks Davis. I like the Comp Cam Dual Energy 265 cam. I think the extended exhaust duration would suit lpg better- well this is what I have read from the Gas Research web site. My car is an XD Fairmont, FMX (big block bellhousing coming from US), rear end 3.23:1, Lukey headers (Tri-y), dual 21/2" exhaust, straight lpg with a single Gas Research carby that flows 480 cfm-although this can be increased. 400 will be a basic rebuild, probably using stock pistons and closed chamber 302 heads. Heads will have hardened valve seats, bronze valve guides, stainless steel valves, tougher valve springs. I am not sure if using Flat top pistons in addition to the 302 heads is realistic i.e. CR > 11.0?
Cheers
Craig
 
#17 ·
kionga said:
FMX (big block bellhousing coming from US. Probably using stock pistons
Cheers
Craig
Is that a factory or aftermarket bellhousing ??? Maybe Dellow or CRS has them but probably not cheap.

Stock Sterling cast pistons were like $9 USD each.
Don't but the 351M pistons they r different.
U can use the TRW 2379F and float the pistons n rods blah, blah, blah but too much money for a street sleeper I think.
 
#18 ·
Hello again Clevo400.
The FMX bellhousing is factory I'm told. Cost $100 US + $90 US postage. From Broader Performance. Specialise in C4, C6, FMX's.
Are the Sterling stock 400 pistons still available? Would you have a contact? For my combo they will probably be more than adequate.
Thanks again.
Cheers
Craig
 
#19 ·
Summit had them and still have I think in stock. I try to order up to $200 USD at a time. Still can't work out Customs Duty and when they charge. Under $200 USD don't worry them but when u r paying $50 USD freight it becomes expensive. I bought the Weiand 8205 for $100 USD all up or $125 AUD but ROCKET wanted $400 and VPW wanted $350. I took the risk and did it myself. If I ordered the wrong item return freight would have killed me. The risks u take.
 
#21 ·
kionga said:
Hello again Clevo400.
The FMX bellhousing is factory I'm told. Cost $100 US + $90 US postage. From Broader Performance. Specialise in C4, C6, FMX's.
Are the Sterling stock 400 pistons still available? Would you have a contact? For my combo they will probably be more than adequate.
Thanks again.
Cheers
Craig

i have a set of quality semi dished (less dish than standard, but not a flat top) good for higher comp with closed chamber heads. i am looking at selling them, to buy a set of forged fully dished pistons. lemme know. thanks
 
#22 ·
i know i will get some grief for this, but here goes.i am newq to the ford thing been stuck on chevy for a while.i now have a 70 torino with a 400m.with 4bbl intake,edelbrock cam,and headers,the motor is a dog! i was told that cleveland heads will bolt up,do i use 400 intake or cleveland?i want to have all the parts on hand as to make it a quick easy transfer.please help
 
#24 ·
351C versud 351/400M

I see there is some confusion about these engines. I'm also not familiar with what was produced in Australia, but here is what occured in North America.

The 351C was produced here for model years 1970-1973 1/2 only. It came in several flavours:

351C 2V - '70-'74 - 2 bolt maincaps
Block Casting # D0AZ-D, D0AE-J, D0AE-G, D2AE-CA

351C 4V - '70-'74 - 4 bolt maincaps
Block Casting # D2AE-CA

351C CJ (Cobra Jet) '71-'74 - 4 bolt maincaps
Block Casting # D2AE-CA

351C Boss '71 only - 4 bolt maincaps
Block Casting # D2AE-CA

351C HO (High Output) '72 only - 4 bolt maincaps
Block Casting # D2AE-CA

Boss, HO, CJ and '72-'73 4V configurations came with the fabled 4 bolt block. All others have 2 bolt blocks which are beefy enough for most street applications. These mills, also known as 335 Series engines, were designed in the late 60's during the horsepower wars. Gas crunch time and Ford "modified" this engine for efficiency and managed to make it one of the worst performance engines ever produced.

351M/400M - These were produced starting in latter 1973 and arrived only in a 2V configuration.
Block Casting # D4AE, D5AZ, or higher.
The 351/400M share the same block and it's the "lower-end" components that make the displacement difference.

A 351C and a 351/400M block is NOT interchangable!!

351/400M deck height is 1.09 inches taller than the 351C - 9.206" versus 10.297"

Main journal diameters for 351C is 2.75" whereas a 351/400M is 3.00".

351/400M connecting rod is 6.58" versus a 351C at 5.78".

The most significant physical difference between 351C and 351/400M is the bellhousing/converter-housing bolt pattern. Both have 6-hole patterns, but they are arranged differently.
351C - same as small block - 302 & 351W.
351/400M - same as 385 series engines - 429 & 460.

The 351/400M was cast at one of two foundrys - The Celveland Foundry or the Michigan Casting Centre. Those cast at MCC prior to 02 Mar 1977, were prone to water jacket cracking problems above the lifter bores.

I advise to stay away from any M series 335 engine.

I'm available to answer further questions about these engines and their differences. Not an expert, but quite knowledgable. I have built several Clevos in the past. Clevelands were one of Ford's best engines. They are one of the best performance engines ever to come out of Detroit.
 
#25 ·
I have a 400m built and this is a list:


Weand intake port matched
2v heads ported, with some work i did to chamber to unshroud exh. valve
2.19 set of stainless valves
1.89 stainless sodium filled exh.
mill heads down to square and get 69cc chambers
comp cam roller rockers
comp cam roller cam and lifters with .609 filt
comp cam custom push rods and guide plates
true roller chain and indexed gear
keith black pistons with 13cc dish (for a clevelend)
rods were polished, maged, shot peened and arp bolts installed
the rods also had to be bushinged to fit the small pin from clevelend piston
chamfered oil holes and polished crank
full rotating balance
arp intake bolts
arp head studs
arp main studs and girdle
deck block from 79 thou stock to 10
block was punched to 30 over and torque plated to finish hone
block was sonick tanked and sonic tested for wall thickness
headman 1 5/8 long tube headers
hi volume oil pump
arp pump drive
msd distributer
digital 6 msd box
edelbrock nitrous plate (100hp shot)


The engine is still on the stand and should be put in by the end of sep. I will post a dyno result when done.
 
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