V8 differences and specs (Windsor/Cleveland) - Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars

Nars · 11-15-2002, 21:25

Hello,

can someone who knows anything about V8's tell me the difference between the Windsor and cleveland motors?
Are they both 5.8? which is bigger? which is better? which would fit into a EA engine bay? which can be altered most? which is more reliable? which is more available? which is stronger? how new are they? is there a better/bigger V8 for the fords? What about the mustang 5.4? etc...

Im not planning on buying one at the moment or anything, would just like to know ANYTHING about V8's as i have steered well clear of them in the past. (Living in the country you only hear about Holden V8 utes so forgive my lack of V8 knowledge.) What im playing at is IF i were ever to re-build an EA id like to go the biggest motor possible, as it would not be a everyday car the fuel economy/everyday drivability doesnt matter. So yer, inform me- Nars

Troutman · 11-15-2002, 21:45

As I understand it, the Windsor was first imported for Falcon from '67 to '73, then replaced with a locally produced 302 Cleveland. There were of course 351 versions of this engine. When the V8 was reintroduced after an 8 year absence in 1991, the Windsor made a comeback with a modernised, lighter, fuel injected (etc) version that still had a lot in common with its predecessor.

Anyway, for a V8 conversion for an E-Series car, I wouldn't consider anything except a late model Windsor. These will get past any emissions tests, and stroker kits are available if 5.0 litres isn't enough.

But - and this is a big but - if you're after outright performance, a proper rebuild of your six cylinder engine, a forced induction kit, and appropriate driveline upgrades such as a diff replacement will get the most performance for your dollar.

SiX_iN_a_RoW · 11-15-2002, 21:48

Most Common Windsors: 289, 302, 351

Clevos: 302, 351

Personally I prefer the Windsor but it depends on the application, Clevo's are generally known to have a stronger bottom end ( 4 bolt mains etc )
For an EA you are better off fitting the 5.0 ( really just a 302 Windsor ) that Ford originally used in them otherwise you will run into emission problems come rego time.
Clevo heads are completely flat so they tend to make the engine wider up top, window heads taper inwards making them easier to fit into smaller engine bay ( XK-XP Falcons )
Both have huge amounts of hot up bits available, Clevo heads flow better out of factory, The windsor heads can be ported a great deal though...the clevo is much heavier ( Ford painted them blue so they wouldnt scare the fish )

Not sure how you would go about fitting a 5.4 or 4.6 out of the stang as they are very wide due to their OHC design

What else do u want to know?

66_mustang · 11-15-2002, 22:11

Remember though that with the Cleveland family the 302 & 351 share the same engine block. The both run a 4 inch bore but the stroke is different stroke. 3 V 3.5 inch.

With the Windsor family the 260,289 and 302 share the same engine block. The 351 Winsdor is different and do not share the same components. the 351W also has a different firing order to it's brothers.

Depending on what state you live in the only way you will be able to run a Clevo in an EA will be to run it on LPG 100% of the time.

With the amount of Winsdor stuff around I would go the 302W out of a late model wreck.

PHoeNiX_EB · 11-15-2002, 23:03

Why wouldnt u pass emission requirements. Are they more strict on emissions if u have it in a newer car. My mate has a whoopass Fully worked 351 clevo in his Silver Monarch LTD. It meets emission requirements, so why wouldnt it if I dropped it in my EB (not that i would).

WBT56 · 11-15-2002, 23:55

Quote:

Originally posted by PHoeNiX_EB
Why wouldnt u pass emission requirements. Are they more strict on emissions if u have it in a newer car. My mate has a whoopass Fully worked 351 clevo in his Silver Monarch LTD. It meets emission requirements, so why wouldnt it if I dropped it in my EB (not that i would).

Engine transplants have to pass emissions regs for year of manufacture of the car. Therefore, easy to put new engine in old car, very difficult to put old engine in new(er) car.

SiX_iN_a_RoW · 11-16-2002, 00:38

Exactly WBT56, you certainly wont be allowed to run a carbed 302W in your EA!
302W's didnt become fuel injected until 83 ( in the states ) as I have the last of the carbied models sitting under my house ( 302W out of an 82 LTD from the states )

I strongly suggest either using the 5.0 that came out in the EB etc or the imported 5.0 HO roller engine out of the mustangs.

302 and 351 Clevos do share the same block and making a 302 a 351 is as simple as a crank swap.....likewise with 289 - 302W but not 351W
If I were to build an outright monster I would start with a 351W anyday...as there are some great stroker kits available out there.

But yeah definately go the Forced Induction route on your I6 or fit an EB 5.0 with a little work done

EA90_S · 11-16-2002, 04:46

302 Clevo, 351 4 V heads better valve springs , 4 barral carter thermoqaud, damm just wish that could fit in a EA oh wells gotta drive the ol falcon XB hehe. they shoulda kept the clevo motor. Can u get Unleaded heads for them just wondering.

WBT56 · 11-16-2002, 15:30

Quote:

Originally posted by EA90_S
302 Clevo, 351 Can u get Unleaded heads for them just wondering.

I think? the mid eighties Ambulances had injected clevos. I have seen them advertised for sale as such anyway, haven't seen under the bonnet of one to be sure though.
Extra weight of a clevo wouldn't do much for the balance of an EA though.

SiX_iN_a_RoW · 11-16-2002, 15:47

you are correct WBT56, the ambo's were mostly powered by 351 Injected Clevos ( but alot of them were 100% LPG too ) and usually backed up by C6's