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What to expect??

5K views 25 replies 11 participants last post by  grey_esp 
#1 ·
So, I have finished my new motor and wanted to know your thoughts as to what to expect. The first version of this motor pulled 260rwkw, the motor was using all standard 351 components, was unbalanced , using stock pushrods and stock rockers. My new setup is as follows:

351 4MAB crank
302c Rods
ACL pistons @ 0.20 Estimated 10:1 Compression
Fully Balanced
2V Heads Have been fully ported, polished and Combustion chamber has been reshaped
4V EVL Valves on both intake and exhaust
Cam Dynamics Hydraulic Cam 234/244 @0.50 ??? /.588'
Anti-pump up lifters
SVO Pushrods
Yella Terra Bolt On Adjustable Rollers
Valve Springs used suit cam
Weiand X-cellerator
750Vac Holley (new style alloy one)
4 into 1 Perry Extractors with a JMM custom 3 inch exhaust

Main Difference between my two motors is the use of 302c rods. Does this make a huge difference in the way the motor will rev.

Should I expect more power/torque??? I just want to for interest sake. Only the dyno and track figures will give a true answer I guess.
 
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#2 ·
Nice street combo,
I would think this combo would make 350-380HP or 255 - 280FWKW, so id say 200 - 220 RWKW depending on trans type, diff etc etc would be a good guess?
Your other stock motor has got me baffled, my solid camed Motor made 450HP or 330 FWKW on the Engine dyno and produced 250 RWKW on the chassis dyno..
 
#5 ·
260kw @ the treads does seem high??? You sure it wasn't 260hp?? If you go through my posts I have more modifications better heads, larger cam, camshaft etc Mine did 279.1rwkw with a fuel issues (2psi pressure aint flash). I am expecting to crack 300rwkw shortly with the fuel and a new manifold.

If that cam's a hyd? Cam dynamics?? Max I've seen from it was 212rwkw in a highly modded 351. That same 351 dropped 255rwkw with an F238 solid cam. That was through a twin 2 1/2" sys with straight through mufflers.

[edit] Main issue is varyiong dynos will give different figures. Some more generous than others. Others not so forgiving. Quite a few of the FF Clevo use Hallam Perf. Andrew has called his dyno the heart breaker as its brought more than its fair share of engine owners back to earth.

On the track you should be able to tell. Well it should be obvious.

[edit 2]During your dyno run. Find out what your tractive effort was at the end of the run as this will also tell a tale.

Brenden
 
#6 ·
brenx said:
260kw @ the treads does seem high??? You sure it wasn't 260hp?? If you go through my posts I have more modifications better heads, larger cam, camshaft etc Mine did 279.1rwkw with a fuel issues (2psi pressure aint flash). I am expecting to crack 300rwkw shortly with the fuel and a new manifold.

If that cam's a hyd? Cam dynamics?? Max I've seen from it was 212rwkw in a highly modded 351. That same 351 dropped 255rwkw with an F238 solid cam. That was through a twin 2 1/2" sys with straight through mufflers.

Brenden
I agree i run 268rwkw with High port heads and a few other goodies to suit so making 260 odd with that combo does sounds a tad high but i may be wrong.It's not the first time.
 
#7 ·
Firstly, Brenx have read the threads regarding your motor and I am, to say the least, impressed. Secondly, I am not here to argue dyno figures, I just want to know what fitting 6 inch rods to a clevo does. Who better to ask than people who drive clevos????

XDCLEVO, no, it was not done just to change the rods. My other motor was un-balanced. When you drove it, you thought the flywheel was going to come through the floor and say hello.

On a final note, never underestimate the use of hydraulic cams, you see to many people kill good motors by putting a cam in that is too big.

Once again take your eyes of the dyno figures and just give me an honest opinion of how the motor changes in terms of throttle response, torque.
 
#8 ·
It's a long debated thing (302 rods in a 351). Yet as common as it is no-one has conclusive dyno data or track data that it works. Hence why I asked for the tractive effort at the end of the dyno run. That'll immediately tell you if they were worth it or not.

I personally believe it should help with low down torque but I don't think they'll help were it counts in top gear. Compare your two dyno charts also. The tuner should have your old engine still on file. Mines still got my dyno data going back as far as 2001.

Brenden
 
#9 ·
I think the big gain for the longer rod length is less side wall load at BDC, this reduces wear on the cylinder and possibly creates less friction (better responce?).
The negative ive heard is poor low rpm cylinder fill because of the dwell times at BTC and TDC, im running them in my current motor and im very happy but i honestly couldnt feel any difference to drive between the 2.
 
#10 ·
I don't know that any one modification will make significant improvements to a cleveland tnsfci. It's all about the right combination of parts working well together.
The long rod mod has been talked of a lot. I would be interested in some back to back testing to see the differance, I can't see it being huge.
If you don't want peolpe to comment on your dyno numbers may be don't quote them.
 
#11 ·
Workorse, couldn't care if people want to query the numbers, its only that i have seen that many threads ruined by the "Dyno Debate" that I don't want to see it happen here. In the end, dyno figures are for the pub and 1/4 mile times are proof. I will tell you now, I didn't build a motor so I could say I had 260 kw, I built it so I could maybe run a 12 sec pass.

My car is being rebuilt at the same time as my engine, will follow up this thread with some results in the weeks to come.
 
#13 ·
The guy that builds my auto's mentioned to me about the 302 v's 351 rods. He has a mate who has a very stout 351 that ran 10's. He too had to pull his motor for some reason but the only change to the combos was using 302 rods. He said it made about 40 hp difference. I beleive there is pro's and cons with 302 rods and in the end they even them selves out. Maybe certain set ups there will be gains and other combos no gain. Really, there is too many variables to know for sure. Let us know how you end up.
 
#15 ·
a very respected engine builder/race car engineer who built my first motor said there is no HP difference between 302/351 rods, the dyno wont show the improvement, only durability testing and wear rates will show it.
 
#16 ·
4Vman said:
a very respected engine builder/race car engineer who built my first motor said there is no HP difference between 302/351 rods, the dyno wont show the improvement, only durability testing and wear rates will show it.

Exactley what I was saying, if you have the extra money doit if not dont.
 
#18 ·
GRUMPY1 said:
just expect pleasure clevo power is real power no computar crap
I have a Clevo and it's actually runs on a computer type module nothing wrong with that. :angel:
 
#19 · (Edited)
So, just an update, after going to the forums meet on saturday, I have gone full steam ahead with the ute. Will post some better pics soon, but for now this is how it looked before I went to the drags.
 

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#25 ·
I've now tried a new browser and can't see any pics in the attached pics box. I can see avatars but no pics?? Weird. Tried IE and Firefox mozilla. I don't have any issues seeing anyone elses pics though? WTF!!

Brenden
 
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