What would you do? - Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars
Ford Forum Ford Forum

» Auto Insurance
» Featured Product
ยป Wheel & Tire Center

Go Back   Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars > The Garage - Tech Forums > Engine Specific Tech > Cleveland Tech
Register Home Forum Active Topics Photo Gallery Auto Loans Garage Mark Forums Read Auto Escrow

FordForums.com is the premier Ford Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-02-2005, 05:34   #1 (permalink)
under thumb
 
xyfmtjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: mt gambier S.A
Age: 41
Posts: 286
What would you do?

Ok just throwing around some ideas here as I may have a bit of coin to throw around (selling my ute) and just seeing what the thoughts of the masses would do.

I already got some plated 4vcc heads and have just had my roller cam arrive from the states The specs are 262 int. @ 050 , and 272 ex. @ 050. The lift is 623 on int. and 649 on ex. The lobe sep is 106 and the int cl is 102.

Already got a 4V funnelwebb and 750dp blah blah!

Now the tricky bit!
A I was thinking of either offloading my 4v's on ebay and buying a set of bare AFD4v and buying the +100 valves and roller springs ect ect to suit the cam with flat top forgies that I got in shed already with polished and peened rods, balanced and the normal bits and pieces or;

B After reading jims combo 10.75 @123 I got to thinking (that hurt) I got simmilar bits floating around here other than the 393ci kit so I did some research. I can get my block sonic checked; 0 decked, bored and all the usual prep supplied with a full kit ie; all bearings and rings ready to assemble for $4400 or maybe gat the bits to make the kit separately as ive seen the cranks for about $740 pistons maybe a grand? and rods off ebay at a way better price! would still need valve and spring setup in the 4v irons

So can we without any flaming, name calling or nasties have an input from ppl with constructive idea's or comments and no I cant afford both as much as I would like to
__________________
Ford mad and proud of it 71xyfmt, 96ef xr8, 82xe 's'pac 400k old workbus!
xyfmtjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 09-02-2005, 06:07   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: perth
Posts: 661
Re: What would you do?

Option A is certainly the cheaper and easier of the two but considering both sets of heads one would have to opt for the extra cubes. Both sets of heads have overly large port volumes and x sections for a stock cube motor.Considering the head choice would be simple enough. I would sell the 4v,s outright and move to alloy,s.Failing that,some intake tongues have been known to work miracles with the 4v,s lazy port speed.
What is the intended use for the engine joe? I think thats the first question that needs answering.
russxr67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2005, 06:13   #3 (permalink)
under thumb
 
xyfmtjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: mt gambier S.A
Age: 41
Posts: 286
Re: What would you do?

It will be very occasional street and 1/8th racing when the season runs around here! I could prob get nearly the cost of the bare AFD's for my 4v's on ebay as I got to replace the valve train anyway to suit the shaft! Hmm decisions

My 4v's have got the tongues now
__________________
Ford mad and proud of it 71xyfmt, 96ef xr8, 82xe 's'pac 400k old workbus!
xyfmtjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2005, 06:22   #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
xdclevo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Cairns
Posts: 1,946
Re: What would you do?

If it were me(damn, its not ) i would sell the motorbike too, and get the stroker kit as well, and AFD 4v alloy heads. I know its hard, because the stuffed 4v's would perform mighty fine too. Do they have the highport exhaust plate?
xdclevo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2005, 06:26   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: perth
Posts: 661
Re: What would you do?

408 cube stroker
AFD 4v heads
use current roller and intake if it fits the heads.If not then perhaps keep the 4v,s
950 hp carb (750 a bit small,don,t you think?)
msd ign
i,d reckon an engine like this should make 600 hp.A standard clevo block with 160 thou walls should be ok at this power level of course with the proper prep.
russxr67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2005, 06:34   #6 (permalink)
under thumb
 
xyfmtjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: mt gambier S.A
Age: 41
Posts: 286
Re: What would you do?

Yeah ive got the exh plates ready to go on next time the engine is out.

A 950hp would be a good idea for sure I didnt think of it while writing my post and yes the Parker 4V will fit the AFD and CHI with port matching. I just got to offload all my junk to keep my lady happy!

I also got 5 blocks to chose from 4 standard bore so should be able to find atleast 1 good one
__________________
Ford mad and proud of it 71xyfmt, 96ef xr8, 82xe 's'pac 400k old workbus!

Last edited by xyfmtjoe; 09-02-2005 at 06:36. Reason: more info
xyfmtjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2005, 07:49   #7 (permalink)
'60 F100 Q-Code
 
davis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Washington, USA
Posts: 750
Re: What would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xyfmtjoe
Ok just throwing around some ideas here as I may have a bit of coin to throw around (selling my ute) and just seeing what the thoughts of the masses would do.

I already got some plated 4vcc heads and have just had my roller cam arrive from the states The specs are 262 int. @ 050 , and 272 ex. @ 050. The lift is 623 on int. and 649 on ex. The lobe sep is 106 and the int cl is 102.

Already got a 4V funnelwebb and 750dp blah blah!

Now the tricky bit!
A I was thinking of either offloading my 4v's on ebay and buying a set of bare AFD4v and buying the +100 valves and roller springs ect ect to suit the cam with flat top forgies that I got in shed already with polished and peened rods, balanced and the normal bits and pieces or;

B After reading jims combo 10.75 @123 I got to thinking (that hurt) I got simmilar bits floating around here other than the 393ci kit so I did some research. I can get my block sonic checked; 0 decked, bored and all the usual prep supplied with a full kit ie; all bearings and rings ready to assemble for $4400 or maybe gat the bits to make the kit separately as ive seen the cranks for about $740 pistons maybe a grand? and rods off ebay at a way better price! would still need valve and spring setup in the 4v irons

So can we without any flaming, name calling or nasties have an input from ppl with constructive idea's or comments and no I cant afford both as much as I would like to

Okay, here's the real deal. That camshaft isn't really a preferred choice for AFD 4V heads. You'd want a much closer to a single profile grind, as there isn't the kind of slow-down in the exhaust ports and the "stale" inlet ports at low RPM as there are in the iron heads.

You seem to be trying to build your engine around a camshaft. Not that that's bad, just that it isn't "overly right." What you want to do is work out your inches, your compression ratio, your cylinder heads and then grind a stick to match it and the combination that you're building. A lot of what a "combo" is will include the vehicle and the environment, which includes the intended usage.

Since you have the camshaft, I'd go forward with the iron heads and build a stroker bottom end. Later, when funds catch up, I'd swap the iron heads and camshaft for AFD 4Vs and new cam to match the combination.

The cam that I'd think you want (not knowing jack about your vehicle) would be something along the lines of a 272*/274* @.050 with about .740" lift probably on about a 106* LSA. I don't think that 102* is a very good idea with the AFD heads, in fact, depending on how heavy the vehicle is and how much transmission, gear ratio and tire you have, I'd probably try to build a lot more dynamic compression and run racing fuel. I'd probably try to get about 12:1 or 12.5:1 static compression and run a camshaft in the realm of about a 108*. However, I'd look at probably 9 million choices ranging from 113*-102* to see what made the nicest, fullest power range with emphasis on making torque, not peak HP. The cam "recommendation" above assumes a minimum of 393 CID.

I'd suggest selling the block and buying a Dart Windsor block and build a Clevor with Cleveland mains and big bore. Obviously, that would toss just about everything but the iron 4Vs into the "for sale" pile. There is something really amazing waiting for anyone who musters up the courage to try it. How does 596 FTLB @ 5000 RPM sound out of a 434 CID combination?

However, this is probably not a reasonable choice for your budget and/or your intended timeframe for completing the project. With what you have, I'd say do up the bottom end in a stroker combination, which will flatten out your cam quite a bit while adding a lot of torque. A 750 carburetor isn't enough carb for this engine, even if at 357 CID. I have an 800 on my 357 with a baby solid flat tappet cam at .549/.570 lift and 238/248 @ .050. Your cam is much more "high speed," and that is going to want to flow some air. I'd be looking at something around 850-900 CFM as a good starting point with a 357 and probably 900-1000 CFM with a 393.

If you clamp those iron heads onto a stroker base, you're going to enjoy them a lot with that camshaft. Otherwise, I'd be thinking differently in terms of designing your combination, especially your camshaft, around what parts you're going to have surrounding it not the other way around.


:davis:
davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2005, 08:02   #8 (permalink)
The Deputy Dogg.
 
falcon coupe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Vic/Berwick
Age: 44
Posts: 1,862
Re: What would you do?

393 with 4v irons looks good, but keep compression low enough to use 98ron, then change to AFD's later, as Davis says, those heads beg for a stroker.
__________________
Member of the the Trans Pacific Moderator Tag Team
falcon coupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2005, 08:22   #9 (permalink)
under thumb
 
xyfmtjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: mt gambier S.A
Age: 41
Posts: 286
Re: What would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by davis
Okay, here's the real deal. That camshaft isn't really a preferred choice for AFD 4V heads. You'd want a much closer to a single profile grind, as there isn't the kind of slow-down in the exhaust ports and the "stale" inlet ports at low RPM as there are in the iron heads.

You seem to be trying to build your engine around a camshaft. Not that that's bad, just that it isn't "overly right." What you want to do is work out your inches, your compression ratio, your cylinder heads and then grind a stick to match it and the combination that you're building. A lot of what a "combo" is will include the vehicle and the environment, which includes the intended usage.

Since you have the camshaft, I'd go forward with the iron heads and build a stroker bottom end. Later, when funds catch up, I'd swap the iron heads and camshaft for AFD 4Vs and new cam to match the combination.

The cam that I'd think you want (not knowing jack about your vehicle) would be something along the lines of a 272*/274* @.050 with about .740" lift probably on about a 106* LSA. I don't think that 102* is a very good idea with the AFD heads, in fact, depending on how heavy the vehicle is and how much transmission, gear ratio and tire you have, I'd probably try to build a lot more dynamic compression and run racing fuel. I'd probably try to get about 12:1 or 12.5:1 static compression and run a camshaft in the realm of about a 108*. However, I'd look at probably 9 million choices ranging from 113*-102* to see what made the nicest, fullest power range with emphasis on making torque, not peak HP. The cam "recommendation" above assumes a minimum of 393 CID.

I'd suggest selling the block and buying a Dart Windsor block and build a Clevor with Cleveland mains and big bore. Obviously, that would toss just about everything but the iron 4Vs into the "for sale" pile. There is something really amazing waiting for anyone who musters up the courage to try it. How does 596 FTLB @ 5000 RPM sound out of a 434 CID combination?

However, this is probably not a reasonable choice for your budget and/or your intended timeframe for completing the project. With what you have, I'd say do up the bottom end in a stroker combination, which will flatten out your cam quite a bit while adding a lot of torque. A 750 carburetor isn't enough carb for this engine, even if at 357 CID. I have an 800 on my 357 with a baby solid flat tappet cam at .549/.570 lift and 238/248 @ .050. Your cam is much more "high speed," and that is going to want to flow some air. I'd be looking at something around 850-900 CFM as a good starting point with a 357 and probably 900-1000 CFM with a 393.

If you clamp those iron heads onto a stroker base, you're going to enjoy them a lot with that camshaft. Otherwise, I'd be thinking differently in terms of designing your combination, especially your camshaft, around what parts you're going to have surrounding it not the other way around.


:davis:
As always davis you never fail to make sense or put things into real terms and for that thankyou I think you just convinced me to stick with the irons for a while yet as its easier to change heads than cranks and I near on got shot for buying this cam (I bought with the 4v's in mind)let alone telling her im not going to use it!

Just at a quick calc would put the static around 12-1 with the irons but I think the tight lobe sep should bleed off enough cyl pressure at lower revs to make it useable on ultimate98 with nulon oct booster.

The car will be aproxx 1650kg me included prolly 4.5k stall with the long arm(maybe less??) and short gears 4.88-5.14 but all in good time and hopefully at ok prices! Should be good for mid 500s and hi 4sftlb
__________________
Ford mad and proud of it 71xyfmt, 96ef xr8, 82xe 's'pac 400k old workbus!
xyfmtjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2005, 08:28   #10 (permalink)
under thumb
 
xyfmtjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: mt gambier S.A
Age: 41
Posts: 286
Re: What would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by falcon coupe
393 with 4v irons looks good, but keep compression low enough to use 98ron, then change to AFD's later, as Davis says, those heads beg for a stroker.
Yeah jim1320 show's us all the proof in his stang. and I know I know I change my mind too much as to how im going to build it but if this guy buys my ute the cook will loosen the reins a bit! will have to do it bit by bit so she doesnt see the total cost
__________________
Ford mad and proud of it 71xyfmt, 96ef xr8, 82xe 's'pac 400k old workbus!
xyfmtjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars > The Garage - Tech Forums > Engine Specific Tech > Cleveland Tech



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:54.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.