Availability of 351 Windsor - Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars

GTENVY · 03-29-2004, 03:43

Just wanting to know the availability of the 351 windsor block? Any ideas on cost?? I know these aren't as readily available as the cleveland but I have my reasons also has anyone fitted 2V/4V cleveland heads to these blocks, I know there are a few differences water ways etc.

lukeh · 03-29-2004, 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTENVY

Just wanting to know the availability of the 351 windsor block? Any ideas on cost?? I know these aren't as readily available as the cleveland but I have my reasons also has anyone fitted 2V/4V cleveland heads to these blocks, I know there are a few differences water ways etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTENVY

Just wanting to know the availability of the 351 windsor block? Any ideas on cost?? I know these aren't as readily available as the cleveland but I have my reasons also has anyone fitted 2V/4V cleveland heads to these blocks, I know there are a few differences water ways etc.

Hard to get these blocks...maybe try an engine importer or post a wanted add on this site. I recommend you only use 2V heads if doing this conversion and maybe get machined to suit 4V valves. As far as I know , all Inlet Manifolds available for this conversion are aftermarket and based on the 2V set up and will decrease optimum fuel flow when fitted to 4V 'Big Port' Heads as the fuel has to 'step' a great deal where the 2V Port size of the Inlet meets the 4V Port size of the Heads.Even if you Max Ported out the Inlet , you would probably still have this problem . A Factory Ford 351 Boss was not Windsor based . It was a 351 Cleveland with 4V Heads , 4 Bolt Mains , and Screw in Welsch Plugs. A 302 Boss was based on a 302 Windsor with a variation of the 4V Cleveland style Heads , 4 Bolt Mains , and Screw in Welsch Plugs. There was one other Boss engine available in 1969-70 which probably erelevant to your post , but will mention it anyway . It was a 429 Boss based on the '387' Series 429 Big Block engine and had large Alloy 'Hemispherical' design heads with the spark plugs protruding the Rocker Covers , and also having 4 Bolt Mains , and Screw in Welsch plugs. All Genuine 'Boss' engines may also have had Steel Crankshaft's fitted...not sure on that though , could be wrong. I believe most of this to be correct...But I'm open to correction.

marcuss · 03-29-2004, 08:39

351 Windsor blocks are scarce these days, especially standard bore.

I have always questioned the validity of Cleveland head conversions on windsor blocks. There are so many aftermarket windsor heads available that you will find something that suits your application. Changing to cleveland heads requires new pistons, intake manifold, exhaust headers and a few small machining operations to redirect water flow.

Boo Boo Foo · 03-29-2004, 16:13

It's quite easy to buy a 351 Windsor "Sportsman" bare block brand new from Ford Racing Parts in the USA. You'll have to pay 15% import duty on the cost + freight in Australian dollars, and then you'll have to pay 10% GST on top of THAT, but after that the block is all yours.

You'd be surprised what's for sale brand new in the 9.5" deck height Windsor (as the 351 block is now called). The 289/302 Windsor is mostly referred to as the 8.2" deck height block - the difference between the two simply being that bigger stroke crankshafts are available for the taller deck height block.

Indeed, if budget isn't an issue, Dart Automotive in the USA is now manufacturing highly regarded all aluminum Windsor blocks in both the 8.2" and 9.5" deck heights. Yep, that's right... it's now possible to build an all alloy Windsor if you want!

But as I said, it's just a question of money really, isn't it?

Go look for a website in the US called "The Racer's Edge" - they build hi-performance Windsor combinations in any capacaity you want, with any horsepower setting you want. Very informative stuff.

EFGTHO · 03-29-2004, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTENVY

Just wanting to know the availability of the 351 windsor block? Any ideas on cost?? I know these aren't as readily available as the cleveland but I have my reasons also has anyone fitted 2V/4V cleveland heads to these blocks, I know there are a few differences water ways etc.

You guys make me laugh

There are 100's of 1000's of Windsor 351's available!!!
In America nearly every F-100 thru to F-350 built for
the last 30 years has one in it

GTENVY.. You need to be more specific with your post!

What is the intended use of this motor... Your EB? or something else ????

Do an internet search... or check these links mate

http://www.enginecentre.com.au/

http://www.eagleautospares.com.au/in...es/engines.htm

http://www.used-ford-engines.com/

Cancerman · 03-30-2004, 02:41

Been kinda interested in this myself...
Does anyone know roughly how much a rebuilt one will cost?
And which ones come with roller tappets?

GTENVY, why not use a Cleveland block? This is Australia, you'd be hard pressed to walk through a backyard without tripping over an old Clevo. The 302C and 351C's have the same block (I think), just different strokes. The Cleveland might also be slightly stronger than the 351W, but you get a better rod ratio with Windsor.

GTENVY · 03-30-2004, 03:23

Quote:

GTENVY, why not use a Cleveland block? This is Australia, you'd be hard pressed to walk through a backyard without tripping over an old Clevo. The 302C and 351C's have the same block (I think), just different strokes. The Cleveland might also be slightly stronger than the 351W, but you get a better rod ratio with Windsor.

Cancerman, reason I want a Windsor block is for a couple of reasons, One the block is lighter, two the cylinder wall are thicker and in general the Windsor is a better block, the third is, bloody everyone got a cleveland. In the US generally from what I personally have encounted the Windsor is the much preferred block but that depends who you talk to.
And yes EFGTHO I am looking at using it in my EB, much modifications needed I know including gearbox, diff, custom headers and probably a motec. I didn't want to give you guys too much info as I wanted some raw opinion first, I got that thanks guys.
So has anyone put a 351w or 351c in a late model everyday driver is the next question ?????

ebxr8240 · 03-30-2004, 05:26

From 1995 the 351 was roller..
Most engines here with efi are speed density meaning they're map..But 5 Ltr efi fits..A Dart iron block comes in three sizes 8:2 8:7 and 9:5 for 351..The 8:7 is a stroker [cheater] 302..I guess 351 inlet would be used after machining down to size...Cost around $3800

EFGTHO · 03-30-2004, 14:56

got this from the internet when thinking of doing a 351 swap myself...
cant find the link now :(

but saved it as a word doc anyways

KEEP IN MIND THESE NOTES ARE FOR LHD BLOCKS
(things will need to be changed...but not exactly as they suggest)

The 351 block and a 302 block are of very similar cast. Which means all trannys will interchange. Heads, timing chain, timing cover, water pump, accessories and internals like cam and lifters will also fit. Below is a checklist of things that you will need to do to make the 351 swap into your Fox body 302 Mustang.
1) You will need a new oil pan and pick up tube. Sold by FMS through Summit, Part number: FMS-M6675A58 - $131.95
You'll need a Falcon SUMP
2) The Flywheel and Harmonic balancer are balanced to 28oz. instead of 50oz. like on late model 302's. You will need to obtain a 28oz. flywheel and balancer.
Better look into this
3) The lifter valley on a 351 is wider. This means you will have to change your intake setup. If you have a Cobra intake or a TFS intake now, both companies sell just a lower intake for the 351 to match the upper intake you already have.
looks good
4) If you want to keep your A/C and power steering you will need a new accessory bracket for the 351. FMS also sells this through Summit, Part number: FMS-M8511B351 - $49.95
may have to fabricate something to suit AUS RHD blocks
5) The 351 will also sit a little higher than the 302 in which 302 headers will not reach the H-pipe. Many companies sell 351 swap headers for this application. I prefer the BBK ones through Summit, Part number: BBK-1511 - $219.95
Dunno if they will fit a Falcon
6) Clearance off the stock hood with the 351 sitting higher will be a 50-50 thing. I have seen a 351 sit underneath a stock hood before. Most of you will need a cowl hood to fit if your motor mounts are fairly new and still very stiff. If they are old I do suggest new ones.
Body work may be required
7) The distributor is also different from a 351 to a 302. You can obtain one from a 5.8 FI truck (if you are keeping FI).
should get one with the motor?
8) A spacer will also be needed for the crank pulley for proper alignment of the belts. FMS sells this crank spacer through Summit, Part number: FMS-M8510B351 - $34.95
should be cool

SOURCE:NO LONGER AVAILABLE

marcuss · 03-30-2004, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFGTHO

You guys make me laugh

There are 100's of 1000's of Windsor 351's available!!!
In America nearly every F-100 thru to F-350 built for
the last 30 years has one in it
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Yes, there are thousands of 351 windsor blocks available in America. That doesn't help a guy rebuilding a streeter in Sydney. Who wants to pay $1000 plus for a junk late model low compression slug?