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Old 01-22-2007, 22:10   #1 (permalink)
On His 14th Stang
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Southern Connecticut
Posts: 3
Carb Tuning & Ignition Situation

Good Afternoon Fellow Carnuts,

I'm having an issue on a car right now that is just driving me nuts -- the first issue is as follows.

The car is a 1986 Mustang GT, it has a 1974 Motor in it a 302 not a "5.0". Issue is finding the firing order...
The original owner thought it was a 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8, meanwhile I'm a firm believer that the thing needs the old school firing order of what I BELIEVE is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8.

The cam is only about 5 years old? Not even. From Ultradyne/Bullet Racing Cams
Engine: 289/302 FORD
Cam Grind No. NF54/NF52-F6
Cam Serial No. G5920
Duration at .050 243 Intake 251 Exhaust
Lobe Lift: .3569 Intake .3716 Exhaust
Lobe Separation:106 Degrees
Seat Duration at .020: 272 Intake 280 Exhaust
Gross Valve Lift: 571 Intake 594 Exhaust
Valve Lash Hot: .016 Intake .016 Exhaust
Seat Timing, Intake:35 BTDC: 57 ABDC: 100
Seat Timing, Exhaust:71 BBDC:29 ATDC:112

On the back it gives break in procedure and the recommended valve spring #2021-16 (World Heads).

I called Ultradyne Cams, and They CANNOT tell me what the firing order is. Its one of the older cams that they made that they do not have 'on file' I gave them the serial number and the guy was like whoa.. an oldie but goodie. He could tell me about his 'ol 289 with it in it. But he couldnt tell me the firing order. he basically told me hold the cam in your hand and turn it and see which valves open in what order.


The engine is fully together and i just CANNOT justify taking it apart again. I would do it if I still had my garage but I was bought out by the state (to let a highway through my old backyard). So I now am in a small apartment saving my money. Its also my office. So err.. I cant exactly put my engine in my living room like I used to.


Whatever -- the second problem is an AED modified 650 Holley called their 'Eliminator'. Its a 650 with a 850 baseplate or something to that effect. Squirters are 31 primary, 35 secondary, 69 Primary jets, 80 secondary. Power valve is a 2.5 (the vacuum is around 5-6 inches, no I dont have a vacuum leak). PVRC is .055 primary. High sped bleed is .031 in both pri/sec.
Idle bleed is .070 in both pri/sec. Idle restriction is .031 pri, .033 sec.
Pink accelerator pump cams and 30cc accelerator pumps.

Car is a same as above, 2900 lbs, no gear in the rear (3.08s), 5 speed. 302 9.5 to 1 compression, Victor Jr Intake manifold, forged internals, R302 block. Ultradyne cam (243int/251ex @.050) Gross Valve Lift of 571int/594exh. 1.7 Erson Roller Rockers, World Products Windsor SR Heads. Granted the car has a powerband for the 'higher' rpms. Malllory Ignition (HyFire VI Box, Promaster Coil & A Unilite comp 9000 Breakerless Optical Dizzy Locked Out at 40 degrees.. has no idle advance and no vacuum advance).


Really a drag motor. Car really has no low end, due to the big plenum intake and the cam. Car is equipped with Nitrous (125 Horsepower wet kit).

Any idea on where I should start with this thing? It drives OK but it really has no nut. I've spoken with AED and they've helped me out with everything Ive asked but right now they are kinda scratching their heads telling me basically trial and error because the carb is MADE for smallblock fords. Ive USED an AED eliminator carb before and it is one AWESOME carb. I'm not riding AED's nuts at all, its just amazing how it worked on one car and the other it hasnt.

Sorry for the long ass post. Let me know what yall think.
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Old 01-23-2007, 00:42   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Carb Tuning & Ignition Situation

I believe given the year of the engine, that the later order should be used. Even the fact that you have an aftermarket cam should point you in that direction, as the 351 order as its known was more commonly used by after market suppliers.

At the end of the day, you can try both orders, it will run, but one i will be worse than the other, normally with a noticable miss.

If you change the order and nothing else, you will notice a substantial change in RPM. IF it increases, then you have found the right order. IF it decreases then you had the correct order in the first place.

Another way is to rip off the valve covers....and the coil lead, and crank it..watch the firing order from there.

Jas
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Old 01-23-2007, 04:18   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Carb Tuning & Ignition Situation

The LATE MODEL order like the 351/5.0 HO order or the LATER order that I listed?

I believe you are speaking about the 351/5.0 HO order. Yeah I guess you are right -- however it is a 1974 Block. And the cam lists as a 289/302 cam, not a 302/351 cam.

Anyone on the carb situation?
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Old 01-23-2007, 04:58   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Carb Tuning & Ignition Situation

Anyone else have any info? Oh yeah -- bump!
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Old 01-24-2007, 02:23   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Carb Tuning & Ignition Situation

Andrew,
it does come down to the design of the cam, and what order it is profiled for.
do what i suggested, it will do no harm, and you WILL know even at an idle.
if your dizzy timing is a long way out, it won't matter as one will be MARKEDLY better than the other.....and that comes from experience...RECENTLY


cheers
Jas
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