Got my car back today from blackwood dyno in adelaide, i took it in to get a unichip installed, because they believed there would be some gains to be had.
When i went to pick it up, i was all excited and like "how much power did it make?!?!?!"
The reply was "well actually it made 156.4" (as opposed to 154.6 when it went in)
My jaw kinda dropped and i didn;t know what to say....
Now it does make torque earlier in the rev range... big deal
So my opinion on unichip, don't waste your money...
It may be okay if you've got a blower, if you don't let the ford eec do it, it seems pretty good.
I had ChipTorque do mine this week - a little better (159 to 163) - $595 + dyno which was probably $100 to $200 worth. Mind you mine isn't in the best of health at the moment so more to be had when sorted.
Don't be disheartened Simon... what mods do you have?
they didn't say too much really, they tried to tell me that it runs better because its making peak power slightly earlier and for a bit longer.... i said "hmmmm thats nice"
i have
edelbrock performer manifold
73mm MAF
65mm TB
1.6 rr's
2030 cam
ported E7's w/ bigger valves
exhaust
cold air, herrod intake pipe, k&n
rebuilt bottom end with about 9.7:1 comp (still a 302)
If your not happy with the result tell them to take it out and get a refund, I wouldn't pay for somthing if I wasn't happy, thats the bottem line............
Hey Simon... nice little setup you have there mate, but you should be pulling much more rwkw than that. There may not be too much more any chip could deliver with those heads. Seriously, E7s (ported etc or not) are like trying to suck beer through a cabbage! Get yourself some GT40Ps and spruce them up or if you have the bucks something aftermarket. The should be a pocket full of kw there. Is it manual or auto...autos with similar mods do hit 180rwkw.
Do Unichip or Blackwood Dyno have a refund policy or satisfaction guarantee on their product?... if you didn't get what you expected then call them on it. ChipTorque have a 14 day satisfaction guarantee - if you don't like it for whatever reason you just give it back for a full refund, no probs.
It's all well and good to be told what (albeit little) differences have occurred and where but what about potential... suggestions on why it's not make more power here or there and recommendataions as to what changes can be made to get where you want to go.
If it were me I'd probably stick with it, get the heads changed, make sure all the little things are right (leads, plugs, asst hoses and valves etc) and then get it back on a dyno and have it tuned again.
Dont pay for it mate $1250 for 1.8rwkw you've been screwed. take it back and insist on a refund.
If they quoted you an approximate gain and it wasa lot higher than that remind them of it and it they dont refund you in full then I suggest you have a chat with the Department of Fair Trading....
Do Unichip or Blackwood Dyno have a refund policy or satisfaction guarantee on their product?... if you didn't get what you expected then call them on it.
DEPARTMENT OF FAIR TRADING NSW says Under the law, a customer is entitled to a refund if goods:
have some basic, serious fault that the customer could not have known about when purchasing them
do not do the job that the customer was led to believe they would do
do not match a sample they were shown
are not as they were described.
In some cases you may offer to repair the goods or exchange them or give the customer a credit. However, the customer has the right to insist on a refund if that is what the customer wants. It is illegal to display signs that say "NO REFUND" or to have your staff tell people that there is no chance of a refund before a sale.
Credit notes are generally offered as a goodwill gesture when consumers are not entitled to a refund and they allow consumers to buy something else at the store. However, if consumers are returning goods because of circumstances where the laws state they are entitled to a refund (see above), traders cannot substitute this right with a credit note.
i thought increased KW was only one small part of the 'package'..To play devils advocate, was the 154.6 reading done pre-installation or on another dyno or day?
so how did it go with in the other categories
i thought increased KW was only one small part of the 'opackage'..To play devils advocate, was the 154.6 reading done pre-installation or on another dyno or day?
That was the catagories for the challenge that APS ran away from not for this setup. For all me know Simon didnt give a damn about economy etc. He may have been after a higher peak power. You cant compare the scoring catagories for the challenge with this setup.
I disagree totally.. it was good enough for your unbiased challenge but all of a sudden it (without us even seeing the dyno sheets and curves, 1/4 mile times etc) is worthy of the Fair Trading Dept ..
OK so the output didn't increase (but we don't even know if it was same day/dyno conditions) but with the E7's it would be bottlenecked so what did he expect the chip to do? What was the promise made before installation?
I can accept the sour grapes towards APS over the change of plans in the 'Challenge' but there is alot more to the feel and performace of a car than just the max output.. Casper spent a few sleepless nights working on a fair and equitable scoring system now thats thrown out the window?
when i went in i said i wanted it to make more power, i don't care about economy, the 154.6 was done on another day at the same dyno by the same person, probably about a week earlier.
It's a manual, and i'm probably going to try get a refund on monday, and go buy some trickflow's or afr's
Total power increase = 1.8rwkw (WOohoo!)
Install and Tune: (out of 100) 50
They stuffed me around a bit, the TPS was rooted and they had to get another one, then they got the wrong one. Then there wasn't free time on the dyno....
Drivability and Reliability (out of 100)
I reckon its worse, it idles higher and needs more revs to get going now
Dunno how reliable yet
Best Drag :
Time Dunno, probably the same as before
Average Drag time
Economy
They only pulled out less than 10% of the fuel at WOT, the AFR was only marginally higher, maybe 12.5
OK so the output didn't increase (but we don't even know if it was same day/dyno conditions) but with the E7's it would be bottlenecked so what did he expect the chip to do? What was the promise made before installation?
an engine will only make as much power as it physicly can a chip no matter what it is will not make any more power than what the mechanical setup of the engine is
as far Simons car is concerned the heads do seem to be a restriction but that may not be the case
if it was my car i would run it at the track to see what the difference is
Simon have you run you car over the 1/4 previously & if so what times was it running as it may help to run it againg to compare the two different times
if you intend on fitting a set of A.F.R.s or even GT40Ps then the chip will enable you to tune it & get a better result
I agree with Rod's statement above. Engines are just big air pumps and if your E7 heads won't swallow any more air, you won't make any more power. The UniChip can only ensure that you have the right fuel and spark for the air the engine is consuming and nothing else.
Get new heads and try again - with the rest of the hardware you have, another ~30-40rwks is possible. You have come this far, so another $1300 for heads will take you all the way.
I agree with slipper also, but i have to say that 156 kw with the mods you have done tells me there is a problem, when all i did was exhaust and K&N and went from 123 to 128, then Unichip gave me 153. Also remember guys it still comes down to the tuner as well. For piece of mind, the Unichip should be installed and tuned by APS, get your refund and try to get it to APS, i know its a hassle but remember there are many, many happy customers of the Unichip, i am one of them.
Yep, like I said in the beginning you have quality good under the bonnet except the heads and you should be pulling much more rwkw than that. There may not be too much more any chip could deliver with those heads.
Get the heads sorted out, make sure all the little things are right then get it tuned again. Whether it be Unichip, ChipTorque or something else, they can only release the extra power as much as some obstacles will allow them to. Sometimes the results are underwhelming but you should try to give a chip a fair shot at it. With the better heads (given the other mods you have) I'd expect any chip to give you 7 or 8 times the gain it has so far.
Blackwood Dyno should have told you to do the heads first before the Unichip... if they didn't that's a worry.
you only tune whats there to be tuned but if he didn't have any gains at all..he should have been offered to take the chip off the car and payed for there time used fitting and tuning the chip..
Or keep it on and have someone else have a go at tuning it..when i had my last chip Rob Herrod got my pb from 13.99 to a 13.80 just from a different tuner no other mods were done in between the 2 tunes..
if the AFR is down around 12.5:1 i would tend to think the tuner isnt really he best - every dyno operator i have spoken to, and every person that has had anything to do with tuning cars has always told me that 13:1/13.2:1 is what you should aim for on 99% of N/A vehicles (trbo cars should be a little richer)
get some better heads and get the unichip tuned somewhere else, then see how you go.
As others have said try elsewhere. I wouldnt think of it as a mark on Unichip/APS but the bloke tuning it, they are the ones plotting the mappping and getting it to run right
PM Peter from APS and see if he can lead you to a tuner he knows will do a great job near where you are located. There has been a lot of threads on this forum with gains of over 10rkwkw and huge 1/4 gains
As others have said try elsewhere. I wouldnt think of it as a mark on Unichip/APS but the bloke tuning it, they are the ones plotting the mappping and getting it to run right
PM Peter from APS and see if he can lead you to a tuner he knows will do a great job near where you are located. There has been a lot of threads on this forum with gains of over 10rkwkw and huge 1/4 gains
to TRUE my 1st Xede tuner gave me a extra 17rwkw, but the car was 1mph slower on the track than when i had no chip and with 0.030 time improvement bang $1300!!.. but chopping and changing a few different tunes and tuners got it going...
I agree with alot of the guys. Those E7's are at thier limit. I wouldn't blame the unichip. You will be much much much happier if you got some good heads on the thing.
I'm guessing your a lil like me. sick of pulling the engine apart and the $$$ it takes to do so but i guarantee great result with a set of gt40p's (port them) or better yet a nice set of alloy's. I see 20+++ rwkw in it for you EASY. Especially with that nice edelbrock intake. I wish i had one!
I had similar dramas with chiptorque and the reality was that my air intake (standard box and filter) were not upto it. 147rwkw became 163rwkw with just a K&N and a cold air duct. THAT went to 174rwkw with a fix of my stuffed stall converter. I'm still chasing more lil problem fixes to get the most out of it.
Thanks for the info guys.
Tomorrow i'm going to ring another bloke i've been put onto that does unichip tuning as well and see what he says....
I'm not happy at all after driving the car around all weekend with how it runs, it stalls, hunts sometimes and they have it idling at about 1300-1400 revs. It needs heaps more (about 2000) revs to get it going now as well which is annoying...
I know the heads are a restriction, but at the same time they are not stock, i've spent some cash on those heads and they do flow a lot better than stock. However i also realise ally heads will flow a crap load better..... i was just lead to believe i would get more out of a chip than what i have...
I'll see what happens tomorrow, i want to rip the thing out sooooo bad, the car is really pissing me off the way it's running
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