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Old 11-20-2005, 00:24   #1 (permalink)
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Windsor engine no./id question.

I'm looking at building an engine starting from a 289 block because NSW engineering rules will not let me go past 299.8x ci in the vehicle receiving the engine.

Even though I could use stroker internals to get capacity without changing external appearance, I don't think I'll be too tempted to do so as the car in question is quite light.

So, what I need to know is, are 289 blocks stamped with codes that will enable them to be differentiated from 302 blocks??? Something said in another thread on these forums has cast some doubt on my previous assumption that codes would tell the blocks apart.

If anyone can shed some light that'd be great.

By the way... I'm specifically referring to the block because I won't be running factory heads or manifolds.
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Old 11-20-2005, 02:17   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Windsor engine no./id question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu289
I'm looking at building an engine starting from a 289 block because NSW engineering rules will not let me go past 299.8x ci in the vehicle receiving the engine.

Even though I could use stroker internals to get capacity without changing external appearance, I don't think I'll be too tempted to do so as the car in question is quite light.

So, what I need to know is, are 289 blocks stamped with codes that will enable them to be differentiated from 302 blocks??? Something said in another thread on these forums has cast some doubt on my previous assumption that codes would tell the blocks apart.

If anyone can shed some light that'd be great.

By the way... I'm specifically referring to the block because I won't be running factory heads or manifolds.
have you seen the rule and why ?
what sort of car.
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Old 11-20-2005, 02:53   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Windsor engine no./id question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atec77
have you seen the rule and why ?
what sort of car.
Yes, I have seen the rule... if you mean the rule regarding maximum capacity. There are light vehicle modification factsheets you can download from the RTA website. The one in question is titled "Guidlines for light vehicle modifications." There you'll find the currently applicable formulas to calculate the maximum replacement engine capacity that can be certified for various types of car. I don't know what you mean by "... and why?"

The car in question is a Datsun 240z.

RTA records say the 240z (HS30 chassis) weighs in at 1020kg. The relevant multiplier is the one for vehicles with a tare mass over 1100kg, and/OR with engines having more than 4 cylinders: Original tare mass in kg x .294 = allowable capacity in ci. As I said above, the capacity limit comes to 299.88ci.

Does that info help you help me??

Again, to avoid getting sidetracked, I'm hoping someone can tell me whether 289 blocks are externally distinguishable from 302 blocks, ie, by stamping/codes. I'd really appreciate the help.
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Old 11-20-2005, 02:54   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Windsor engine no./id question.

I have no idea about the rule you refer to, but thats not imorptant.
The only difference between 289 and 302 blocks will be the casting number, and this is partly covered by the starter motor. (there may be other changes I'm not aware off, others will help.)
The 302 is just a stroked 289, no differenec in bore at all. Something else to remember is that most 289's running around today were built using 302 blocks. , but with the old crankshaft they are still a 289.
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Old 11-20-2005, 03:01   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Windsor engine no./id question.

Thanks Nassi. Could you (or anyone) suggest a resource for early windsor engine codes so that I can i.d a 289 block?
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Old 11-20-2005, 03:48   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Windsor engine no./id question.

A good resource is "How to re-build Small Block Ford engines". by Tom Monroe, published by HPBooks.
Honestly mate no RTA bloke is going to pick any external difference. A trick is to make sure your inlet manifold is aftermarket, or genuine Ford 289 as it is cast into the manifold as 302 or 289, but this could always be argued.

Come on Windsorphiles any othe differences?
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Old 11-20-2005, 06:32   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Windsor engine no./id question.

In the lifter valley the block will have 289 or 302 cast into it.

Now here is a rarely known fact. In 1968 there are some 289's that have 302 cast into the lifter valley because some 302 blocks were cast at the windsor plant to be built into 302's but never were and instead were sent to the Cleveland plant where the 302's were being built. SOME of these blocks were built into 302's and some were built into 289's as Cleveland ran out of 289 blocks. I have one of these blocks and that is how I learned about it. Also this site was a huge help.

http://www.classicmustang.com/casting_numbers.htm

You should find everything you need there.

Steve
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Old 11-21-2005, 02:51   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Windsor engine no./id question.

This is all good info and true, but rego guys dont lift the inlet manifold/ valley cover or the rocker covers for inspection. So ensure the outside is right and no probs. Have you thought about a 347 , will look the same so who's to know
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Old 11-21-2005, 03:15   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Windsor engine no./id question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu289
Thanks Nassi. Could you (or anyone) suggest a resource for early windsor engine codes so that I can i.d a 289 block?
you are right on power to "factory weight" rule. have you added in the weight of the heaviest car in your model as this can increase your capacity legally somewhat.
as for your engine prefix/numbers for a 289. dont just rely on that i am not sure of the windsors interchangeability. because if it is a 289 block you have got and it was previously registered in n.s.w as a 302 it will now be logged on the data base as such even if it is or was a 289. and you wont comply. this happens and is upsetting when you have rebuilt it. what i would do is find a block you intend on using and check the numbers out with the rta first if you do not know the history. as these have been in and out of the system for quite some time now.
if the block is a import you have nothing to worry about.
as for stroking it this would not be a problem as there is no way they can tell. as long as the block is the std configuration your free to do as you like
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Old 11-21-2005, 05:37   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Windsor engine no./id question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu289
Yes, I have seen the rule... if you mean the rule regarding maximum capacity. There are light vehicle modification factsheets you can download from the RTA website. The one in question is titled "Guidlines for light vehicle modifications." There you'll find the currently applicable formulas to calculate the maximum replacement engine capacity that can be certified for various types of car. I don't know what you mean by "... and why?"

The car in question is a Datsun 240z.

RTA records say the 240z (HS30 chassis) weighs in at 1020kg. The relevant multiplier is the one for vehicles with a tare mass over 1100kg, and/OR with engines having more than 4 cylinders: Original tare mass in kg x .294 = allowable capacity in ci. As I said above, the capacity limit comes to 299.88ci.

Does that info help you help me??

Again, to avoid getting sidetracked, I'm hoping someone can tell me whether 289 blocks are externally distinguishable from 302 blocks, ie, by stamping/codes. I'd really appreciate the help.
If you check the actual rule it mentions a model series , so go look for the heaviest car in that model , maybe a wagon or something as thats the weight you can atribute to the car and if its enough will be able to run a 302 legally .
I am repeating what an engineer in NSW quoted
hope it helps
I suggest you could also consider a jap 8 may be a better fit .
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