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Windsor engine no./id question.

6K views 37 replies 10 participants last post by  Stu289 
#1 ·
I'm looking at building an engine starting from a 289 block because NSW engineering rules will not let me go past 299.8x ci in the vehicle receiving the engine.

Even though I could use stroker internals to get capacity without changing external appearance, I don't think I'll be too tempted to do so as the car in question is quite light.

So, what I need to know is, are 289 blocks stamped with codes that will enable them to be differentiated from 302 blocks??? Something said in another thread on these forums has cast some doubt on my previous assumption that codes would tell the blocks apart.

If anyone can shed some light that'd be great.

By the way... I'm specifically referring to the block because I won't be running factory heads or manifolds.
 
#27 ·
Stu289 said:
Ok... have read through the replies and thanks for some well-reasoned suggestions.

The best of them was probably to consult an engineer and ask what proof of engine capacity they would require.

Thanks also for a number of pointers as to where i.d and casting numbers are found.

Whoever asked if I'd considered a 347... yes, I've been wondering what rod/crank/piston combo I might like to get into the lil' windsor block... I don't need so much torque that I really want to tread into questionable or costly territory with piston pin location - 331 is a possibility, as are a number of longer-rod combos from 289 up... at this point I'm having to reconsider diff/halfshaft joint options to cope with the torque.

I have also considered a Jap V8. The Lexus 1UZFE is the other engine I may use for the project but I would feel compelled to use forced induction in that case... I'm kinda wanting the project to have an old-school racer feel to it like the V8 installs into 240Zs which happened soon after they were released.

Finally, regarding the curveball-highjack... a lot of people have put 302 cranks and rods into 289 blocks, as well as other 'stroker' combinations generally advertised as 'for 302', because they're basically the same block and have the same deck height... the 351 is a physically taller block capable of housing much more capacity.
As you probably realise a front cut for a 1uzfe is pretty cheap , add a couple of cheap jap turbos and some pipe , we have done this several times and a hundred horse per litre is pretty damn simple on an essentually stock motor ( they are wide but I should think would fit) either way good luck and keep us informed .
 
#28 ·
aussie7mains said:
hi
I got caught out many years ago with an 289 in an XP sedan, i was told i could have the 289ci, later I wore out the 289 so figured Id stick in a 302, so built a 302 then transfered all the good bits from the 289 onto it.
Being a good lad i presented myself to the RTA (Perth) and found "sorry thats a 302 and your permit is void" i asked how can you tell, by the engine number silly, weve got all the details and can tell the age and model of the engine number of the block.Casting numbers have NOTHING to do with it.
My advise is to get a 289 block, there isnt any difference to my knowledge, and use that to make up what ci you like, as the engine number on the blocck will show early 66-67 model which means 289ci to them.
A7M
Boy that would suck!
Perth RTA licenced my Xm with a 302w
So what would happen if you used an after market block with 289 internals?

Im sure if it was talked through with a certified engineer what you were doing he would sign it off as a 289 because that is what it is .
Its all about having the the correct paper work with all the i's dotted and t's crossed, so they can't second guess anything. There beauracrates not
mechanics's, and as you found out rely on whats written down in front of them.
 
#29 ·
aussie7mains said:
hi
I got caught out many years ago with an 289 in an XP sedan, i was told i could have the 289ci, later I wore out the 289 so figured Id stick in a 302, so built a 302 then transfered all the good bits from the 289 onto it.
Being a good lad i presented myself to the RTA (Perth) and found "sorry thats a 302 and your permit is void" i asked how can you tell, by the engine number silly, weve got all the details and can tell the age and model of the engine number of the block.Casting numbers have NOTHING to do with it.
My advise is to get a 289 block, there isnt any difference to my knowledge, and use that to make up what ci you like, as the engine number on the blocck will show early 66-67 model which means 289ci to them.
A7M
hey aussie7mains...did you read my post number 22 here??
 
#30 ·
Yes Ive looked at post 22
When I did my xp (1978-84), BTY Im 52, so an old schoolie, there were no engineers reports or such like, you were given a permit for the mods and had to have it with you all the time.
PS when i had the 302 it ran 14.5 @102mph in street trim, which I thought was pretty good for the time.
As to 289 -302 blocks I could never see any difference in the bores.
As to aftermarket blocks I wouldnt like to second geuss what the RTA might decide.
A7m
 
#31 ·
aussie7mains said:
Yes Ive looked at post 22
When I did my xp (1978-84), BTY Im 52, so an old schoolie, there were no engineers reports or such like, you were given a permit for the mods and had to have it with you all the time.
PS when i had the 302 it ran 14.5 @102mph in street trim, which I thought was pretty good for the time.
As to 289 -302 blocks I could never see any difference in the bores.
As to aftermarket blocks I wouldnt like to second geuss what the RTA might decide.
A7m
My friend who told me that the bore length of a 289 Windsor and a 302 Windsor are differant,worked for many years as an engine builder by trade.He owned a genuine XR GT for about twenty years,plus he also still owns many Windsor engines,and specializes in building and selling them from home.So most thing's he tells me about a Windsor I give weight to!! Next time I am there I will measure for myself !!
 
#32 ·
lukeh said:
Yes my friend say's that 289 Windsor Blocks have shorter bores than 302 Windsors.I forget by how much that he told me,but it was by either about 1/4 inch or 1/8 inch? I forget which one.He say's that the 302 Windsor Crank and rods can be fitted to a 289 block,but piston skirts will likely end up breaking or something.
Your friend is correct about the bores being a different depth. I noticed a difference between the 289 block and the mexican when taking measurements for my build.

And just to throw more confusion into the discussion I have an old stock 289 rusting away in the backyard:

block casting C6AE-6015-C 7A12
head casting D0OE - B ; which is a 302 head.
crank is 289 as are rods.

The mexican block casting number is C8AM 6015-B 6-HO
 
#33 ·
For those of us in the US could someone please explain the regulations you have there concerning what size engine you have in your car? I get the impression that you have to have the same sized engine that your car was built with?

Here in the US it doesn't matter what size engine you have if your car is too old (26 years). Otherwise in many places your car is inspected for emissions reasons.
 
#34 ·
Ohio XB said:
For those of us in the US could someone please explain the regulations you have there concerning what size engine you have in your car? I get the impression that you have to have the same sized engine that your car was built with?

Here in the US it doesn't matter what size engine you have if your car is too old (26 years). Otherwise in many places your car is inspected for emissions reasons.
Not quite , but in some states a formula is used which is weight vs capacity , hence the 4.7 litre rule in this case unless the model has a heavy version in which case a 302 maybe used. ( confused yet ?)
 
#35 ·
xpc66 said:
Your friend is correct about the bores being a different depth. I noticed a difference between the 289 block and the mexican when taking measurements for my build.

And just to throw more confusion into the discussion I have an old stock 289 rusting away in the backyard:

block casting C6AE-6015-C 7A12
head casting D0OE - B ; which is a 302 head.
crank is 289 as are rods.

The mexican block casting number is C8AM 6015-B 6-HO
Thanx xpc66...It's good to have someone else say it aswell.I've been trying to say this for a while,but people seemed to ignore me and tell me there was no difference.I have'nt got around to officially measuring them for myself...but will do it soon.
 
#36 ·
Ohio XB said:
For those of us in the US could someone please explain the regulations you have there concerning what size engine you have in your car? I get the impression that you have to have the same sized engine that your car was built with?

Here in the US it doesn't matter what size engine you have if your car is too old (26 years). Otherwise in many places your car is inspected for emissions reasons.
here in Western Australia
alternative engines may be fitted where they are an option listed by the vehicle manufacturer and provided the complete option, including suspension, braking and transmission systems are utilised.

Where an engine change is effected and there is an alteration in RAC horsepower, it is necessary to have the vehicle examined so that the new engine number can be recorded and the licence amended accordingly. Where the engine is the same capacity it is not required to be presented for inspection. Reassessment may be performed at any Licensing Centre, without payment of a fee.
Unless you decide to build a ICV (individually constucted vehicle)or street rod,
then i think 460ci is the largest . Before starting you need to submit an application to Construct/Modify a Street Rod form and engineers report if you want any chance of getting approval.

ICVs will generally need to be constructed under the guidance of an Engineering Signatory or other suitably qualified engineer. The engineer will be required to provide a report verifying that the vehicle complies with all the relevant Australian Design Rules, Road Traffic (Vehicle Standards) Regulations and Road Traffic (Vehicle Standards) Rules.
 
#37 ·
So you need to get approval to put in say something larger than a 351 into an XB Falcon before you do so? And this has to be backed by an Engineer?

I can understand if you are building a car from scratch that it meet road regulations like any other manufacturer. I am pretty sure cars like that have to be inspected when completed here too.

Thanks for the replies.
 
#38 ·
Interesting how this thread has developed...

Lukeh, I didn't mean to sound dismissive regarding the fact of the bore depth difference between 302 and 289... I would be interested to know just what the different measurements are. I have, however, inquired with a couple of reputable stroker assembly maker/sellers who assured me their SBF (302) kits would work with a 289. Again, I would still be interested to know the actual differences... perhaps one block might need clearancing with certain rods and not the other?

Atec77,

"As you probably realise a front cut for a 1uzfe is pretty cheap , add a couple of cheap jap turbos and some pipe , we have done this several times and a hundred horse per litre is pretty damn simple on an essentually stock motor (they are wide but I should think would fit) either way good luck and keep us informed ."

Who is/are the 'we' referred to? If you've gotta any experience with a TT 1UZFE I'd love to tap your brain. The 1UZ will fit... no doubt turbos will be very tight but I'd love to give it a shot if I can do it without chopping away major structural bits. A mildly boosted 1UZFE mated to a supra 6 speed in a 240Z would be a lot of fun.

Uhh... non-ford product disclaimer... I'm still seriously considering building the 289. It's cool too see that there are obviously some pretty open-minded people on a single-make forum.
 
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