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Old 05-30-2007, 13:49   #1 (permalink)
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Cam sprocket coming loose and oil pressure going through the roof

A weird sequence of events.

First, I'm the nieghborhood mechanical good sumariton. So I'll to piece through the parts I have figured out on this tale of woe.

A friend buys a "racing" 390 and decides to have freshened up prior to installation into his mud bog truck.

He finds a guy that was supposed to be an FE wizard but as near as I can tell was more of a common thief.

He finally gets his motor back installed in his truck. Since time it hasn't run more than 5 minutes between failures.

The current scenario. The truck dies driving from the driveway into his garage. No Spark. The owner ran through some parts replacement, I checked in the distributor and found that the rotor was not turning! A quick check shows the Crank is turning but the cam is not. So I point him toward the timing chain and leave for the night.

He pulls the timing cover and finds that the index pin on cam had slipped forward and was allowing the socket to slip on the cam.

His fix was to install a washer on the cam bolt that would keep the pin captive in its place. It was all back together when I saw it next. But wouldn't run and had no oil pressure when cranking over.

On my next visit, pulled the distributor an found the oil pump drive shaft was missing.

After fishing the oil pump shaft out of the pan with a magnet(the short version). No point I should mention is that the owner did pull the pan and reinstall it. We assembled and roughly timed it and the ol' 390 came to life.

First strange thing at an idle the engine now is pegging a 90 psi gauge. The whole truck is a mess when it comes to indicators. I recommended he purchase a good gauge set.

Well at this point the engine has another 5-10 minutes running time in the garage on it. He was going to take it out to a farm and try it out a bit. The truck gets up on the trailer and stalls. No attempts to fire and doesn't turn smoothly.

I'm immediately theorize that the cam pin is loos again.

A quick check confirms the cam is not turning with the crank.

I asked a late question.. What was the oilpressure like with this same gauge prior to this last mishap. 30psi at idle and up.

That's what little I know.
________________________________________________

Now my questions:

Cam pin: does the cam need replaced? I'm used to the pins being pressed in an not coming out.
Timing set: Should this whole mess just be replaced?
Cam bolt: Should this bolt have a washer behind it?

Oil Pressure: What could a novice mechanic do to create such high oil pressure? I've read that the pressure releif is at the back of the block, but I don't remember what this looks like. Is it possible to have caused this with an error in pan installation. The distributor is the same but no garantees that the housing is in the same position as before. I timed it putting the #1 plug +12 degrees but turning the distributor.

Help!!
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Old 05-30-2007, 14:56   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Cam sprocket coming loose and oil pressure going through the roof

the pin should be a slip fit into the cam, the fuel pump eccentric is held by the pin then a bolt with a thick washer traps the pin.
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Old 05-30-2007, 15:06   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Cam sprocket coming loose and oil pressure going through the roof

Quote:
Originally Posted by 390wagon
the pin should be a slip fit into the cam, the fuel pump eccentric is held by the pin then a bolt with a thick washer traps the pin.
That good to knows thanks!
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Old 05-30-2007, 18:06   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Cam sprocket coming loose and oil pressure going through the roof

What 390wagon said is right,...the thick washer is to insure that the pin doesn't come forward. When the crank was turning and the rotor wasn't did you find a broken chain or cam gear? IF not, you might have a problem with your distributor, oil pump, or drive. Make sure that when the cam is installed the thrust plate is intalled to hold it in then the spacer, then the cam gear, the pin then the fuel pump eccentric bolt and washer. Also make sure the crank gear is on all the way till it stops. I would try using a mechanical type of oil preasure guage for a more accurate reading. One other thing...is this a new overhaul or just a cam change? You might have blockage in the oil gallies, just a thought!!
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Old 05-30-2007, 19:30   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Cam sprocket coming loose and oil pressure going through the roof

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Originally Posted by kdtrucker
What 390wagon said is right,...the thick washer is to insure that the pin doesn't come forward. When the crank was turning and the rotor wasn't did you find a broken chain or cam gear? IF not, you might have a problem with your distributor, oil pump, or drive. Make sure that when the cam is installed the thrust plate is intalled to hold it in then the spacer, then the cam gear, the pin then the fuel pump eccentric bolt and washer. Also make sure the crank gear is on all the way till it stops. I would try using a mechanical type of oil preasure guage for a more accurate reading. One other thing...is this a new overhaul or just a cam change? You might have blockage in the oil gallies, just a thought!!
The motor was supposed to be completely refreshed. The gauge registering the 90lbs is a mechanical gauge. I quick check showed everything to be low quality, so I dismissed the reading. But the owner assures me that this mech gauge worked correctly 30lbs at idle and up to 80 with revs up.

Other ideas on what problem could cause this pressure problem?

Just talked to the owner. we'll pull the timing cover tomorrow and see what the problem is there. I can't picture anything behind the timing cover resolving the oil pressure issue.
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Old 06-02-2007, 09:51   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Cam sprocket coming loose and oil pressure going through the roof

Maybe the PO installed a high pressure pump for some reason? Depending on how deep you dig inside it might be worth a look. Most melling and other brand pumps are marked HP or HV for high pressure or high volume.

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Old 06-02-2007, 14:27   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Cam sprocket coming loose and oil pressure going through the roof

was the filter changed when the work was done? defective or plugged filter maybe? is the gauge plugged in to the filter mount?
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Old 06-02-2007, 17:44   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Cam sprocket coming loose and oil pressure going through the roof

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Originally Posted by 390wagon
was the filter changed when the work was done? defective or plugged filter maybe? is the gauge plugged in to the filter mount?
The filter was changed. I 'll have to verify placement of the gauge. Ill guess it is at the filter mount

An update the pinhead FE wizard installed the cam with the cam pin keeper washer installed so everything came loose. The cam bolt, missing keeper washer, timing set and front cover were all casualties. This will get the truck running again soon. The last concern is the excessive oil pressure.

One topic I haven't touched. When the cam came loose and isn't nmoving while the crank is turning, did we have valves to pistons on atleast one cylinder? I'm thinking the answer is yes. SHould I be checking for bent pushrods or broken rocker arms at a minimum?

Pretty ugly. the owner really didn't havre the money to play these games. The crook engine builder died, so the owner has no recourse. I look at the work the crook did and the money he changed and quietly hope he's enjoying hell.

Haven't decided weather to touch on the valves to pistons discussion yet with the owner.
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Old 06-03-2007, 15:07   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Cam sprocket coming loose and oil pressure going through the roof

check pushrods, if none bent hope for the best.
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Old 06-04-2007, 06:01   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Cam sprocket coming loose and oil pressure going through the roof

How high does the oil pressure go at cold start, warm idle, and running at speed?
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