XR6-T Torque Limiter (Actual Workings) - Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars
Ford Forum Ford Forum

» Auto Insurance
» Featured Product
ยป Wheel & Tire Center

Go Back   Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars > Ford Cars and PAG Vehicles > Australian Ford's Discussion > F6 Typhoon | XR6 Turbo
Register Home Forum Active Topics Photo Gallery Auto Loans Garage Mark Forums Read Auto Escrow

F6 Typhoon | XR6 Turbo Turbo Talks start here.

FordForums.com is the premier Ford Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-18-2003, 19:07   #1 (permalink)
T5 Expert Operator
 
XR_Strider_GuY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: 3Fb Skunk Works(JXR01 Dev)
Age: 34
Posts: 6,542
XR6-T Torque Limiter (Actual Workings)

Ok i now know the theory of how this 450Nm torque limiter is achieved on the XR6-T.

A maximum boost of 6psi is achieved at "i think" 3000rpm and for every 1000 rpm there after the boost drops a certain amount say 1psi. So by the the time redline is reached the boost tails of to almost nothing.
Now from the seat of your pants, this makes the XR6-T behave much like a bigger capacity engine rather than your typical japanese turbo powered cars that tend to have a big top end rush.

What my question is how is the boost at the turbo lowered as the rpm increases?? I mean since the turbo itself is driven by exhaust gas's is there a mechanism that limits the exhaust gas's spinning the turbo, or is there a diaphram on the intake end that restricts air comming into the intake.
__________________
Motor May 2001 Quote: "Believe it or not, there are actually a bunch of weirdos out there who reckon a six cylinder is the dux gutz. Bugger it: I'm one of them" :s5

AUII Late Ed XR6 HP T5 Venom- Full Tickford Body Kit, 17in Wheels, Herrod Bi-plane Spoiler, Momo Steer/Gear, T-Series Interior Options, Premium Stereo and a very light-tuned 4.0L I6

(FPV-Tickford Club of NSW Member and Co-Founding Member of 3FB Inc, Ford Forums Food Bandits)
XR_Strider_GuY is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-18-2003, 20:13   #2 (permalink)
Pursuit Reincarnation Dog
 
Aussie Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Melbourne VIC
Posts: 7,777
It's called a wastegate Strider. Come on, surely you know about this stuff?
__________________
BA'1.5' Pursuit 290
Lightning Strike / Reflective Orange Stripes

'General' Dog - AP's German Shepherd and Best Mate - 02Dec1998-15Dec2003.
'Pepper' Dog - General's and My Little German Shepherd Sweetie - 1996?-02Apr2006.

'Sako' Dog - My Beautiful and Pretty German Shepherd - 2001?-23Aug2006.
Aussie Pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2003, 20:28   #3 (permalink)
T5 Expert Operator
 
XR_Strider_GuY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: 3Fb Skunk Works(JXR01 Dev)
Age: 34
Posts: 6,542
Quote:
Originally posted by Aussie Pete
It's called a wastegate Strider. Come on, surely you know about this stuff?
Yeah mate, i do know how a wastegate works, but i thought it kept the boost at a maximum, so if the maximum is set to say 6psi then waste gate would open to keep it at that boost. Sounds like wate gate is electronic controlled to achieve the de-boosting effect.
__________________
Motor May 2001 Quote: "Believe it or not, there are actually a bunch of weirdos out there who reckon a six cylinder is the dux gutz. Bugger it: I'm one of them" :s5

AUII Late Ed XR6 HP T5 Venom- Full Tickford Body Kit, 17in Wheels, Herrod Bi-plane Spoiler, Momo Steer/Gear, T-Series Interior Options, Premium Stereo and a very light-tuned 4.0L I6

(FPV-Tickford Club of NSW Member and Co-Founding Member of 3FB Inc, Ford Forums Food Bandits)
XR_Strider_GuY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2003, 15:00   #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: ACT
Posts: 594
Quote:
Originally posted by XR_Strider_GuY
Yeah mate, i do know how a wastegate works, but i thought it kept the boost at a maximum, so if the maximum is set to say 6psi then waste gate would open to keep it at that boost. Sounds like wate gate is electronic controlled to achieve the de-boosting effect.
That is exactly how it works. There IS a maximum, but it is dynamic, not static, ie. the maximum boost level changes as the ECU senses differing conditions (RPM, temp etc).
PURSUTE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2003, 16:45   #5 (permalink)
Pursuit Reincarnation Dog
 
Aussie Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Melbourne VIC
Posts: 7,777
The older turbo cars used a pneumatic controlled wastegate. It simply ran a diaphragm that had intake pressure air applied against it. As intake pressure (boost) rose, the diaphragm spring was compressed and the wastegate lever moved to open the wastegate. Whilst that was the theory the reality was that the wastegate opened gradually and in fact was often open before max boost was reached.

Years and years ago (I'm not THAT old) when many of us started playing with EFI Turbo cars we used heavier springs in the wastegate and adjustable wastegate rods to raise boost. This had the effect of raising boost but led to an engine with an on/off power delivery. The otehr option was pneumatic bleed valves to allow air out of the wastegate boost sense line making the wastegate think that the boost pressure was lower than it really was.

The other issue encountered with the above setups was was that boost came on so strong in the midrange that BMEP (cylinder pressures) were extreme and many engines blew up.

So we used a staged bleed system. In many cases up to four bleed solenoids were used that were set to open at varying rpm. This allowed the maximum torque range of the engine to be passed at low boost and then staging of boost pressures to increase as enegine volumetric efficiency decreased. What essentially happened was as revs rose, so did boost. Torque remained almost constant yet with revs rising power was raised dramatically. I saw one Ford engine running 48psi boost this way. I ran 24 in my VL Commodore.

Now of course the ECUs fitted to most cars allow this to happen by programming boost levels into the ECU map. Much simpler, more accurate, and as you see on XR6T it allows a flat torque curve and the ability to create an extremely civil and flexible engine.

Does that answer your question?
__________________
BA'1.5' Pursuit 290
Lightning Strike / Reflective Orange Stripes

'General' Dog - AP's German Shepherd and Best Mate - 02Dec1998-15Dec2003.
'Pepper' Dog - General's and My Little German Shepherd Sweetie - 1996?-02Apr2006.

'Sako' Dog - My Beautiful and Pretty German Shepherd - 2001?-23Aug2006.
Aussie Pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2003, 17:21   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: ACT
Posts: 594
Quote:
....Ford engine running 48psi boost....
Holy C**P!!!! You could pump your tyres up with that!
PURSUTE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2003, 17:29   #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Aus
Posts: 189
Re: XR6-T Torque Limiter (Actual Workings)

Quote:
Originally posted by XR_Strider_GuY


What my question is how is the boost at the turbo lowered as the rpm increases?? I mean since the turbo itself is driven by exhaust gas's is there a mechanism that limits the exhaust gas's spinning the turbo, or is there a diaphram on the intake end that restricts air comming into the intake.

The PCM measures the boost pressure using the BP sensor and controls it in relationship to engine load,temperature & RPM.
The wastegate solenoid valve is located behind the battery and is PCM controlled to divert excess pressure as required.
__________________
GMH Technology:- Proof cave men do exist
FoMoCo:- Producing tomorrows technology today
FordTech65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2003, 22:20   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 22
Good theory but in practice the turbo engine holds 5psi from boost up till engine cut out as evidenced by many power runs on the dyno. Since boost is constant, the only other way you are going to close down the power is through ignition timing. Although for torque limiting I believe the electronic throttle closes momentarily and boost drops off for that instant, but not for extended periods eg. Over entire rev range.
__________________
Unigroup Engineering
Chassis Dyno Facility
Unit 17/17A Amax Ave
Girraween, Sydney
www.unigroup.com.au
Phone: (02) 9631 2470
Fax: (02) 9631 8306
Unigroup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2003, 01:30   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Aus
Posts: 189
Quote:
Originally posted by Unigroup
Good theory but in practice the turbo engine holds 5psi from boost up till engine cut out .
So what stops the boost going higher than this??
__________________
GMH Technology:- Proof cave men do exist
FoMoCo:- Producing tomorrows technology today
FordTech65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2003, 05:44   #10 (permalink)
Forced Falcon
 
EATURBO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: MACKAY QLD
Age: 38
Posts: 307
you can control boost through throttle position, so as the boost drops off the throttle is being closed a little to achieve this.I run my car on 20psi but can vary the boost through throttle position.
I dont use this as a method of boost control, i have just noticed it when driving with different throttle openings
__________________
EA Fairmont Ghia Turbo, White,425kw, nine inch, tremec, EB GT leather trim, B45 simmons, For Sale $16000

EB GT Black Manual with Sunroof Build Number 98

BA Fairmont Ice Mint Silver
EATURBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars > Ford Cars and PAG Vehicles > Australian Ford's Discussion > F6 Typhoon | XR6 Turbo



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
XR6 Speed Limiter? EddyBigShoes The Pub 16 10-24-2002 01:32
BA Falcon Engine Reveal RPO83 Ford Worldwide News 0 09-04-2002 07:27
Torque and Horsepower 211 General Tech 9 06-21-2002 04:23
EA XR6 - Rocker Cover Torque Specs? boganman Inline 6 Tech 15 06-16-2002 22:43
Horsepower vs. Torque! Dan [Sac] Ford Probe Forum | Mazda MX6 Forum 3 12-17-2001 08:56

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:47.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.