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Australian Falcons Discuss the australian born and bred models here. Includes the 80's 90's and present day Falcons offered by Ford Oz.

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Old 04-24-2003, 23:05   #1 (permalink)
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Question BA TORQUE Output

I have a question regarding the BA - ok so the I6 makes 182kw and 380Nm right. Forgetting about power (ie KW) for the moment, how does the engine make so much torque?? I mean compare it to some other hot performance cars:

- WRX Impreza STi - 343Nm (2lt turbo 4) (195kw)
- BMW M3 - 365Nm ( 3.2lt 6) (252kw)
- Ferrari 360 Modena - 373Nm (3.6lt V8) (298kw)
- Honda NSX - 298Nm (3.2lt 6) (206Kw)
- Porshe 911 Carrera - 375Nm (3.6lt 6) (235kw)
- and i could go on.

- Now seeing EVERY one of these cars makes more KW than the I6 falcon, and also each car would definitivley shit all over my BA XR6 when it comes to outright speed, WHY is the falcons torque output so high compared to these others - especially the V8 Ferrarri which surprises me the most. I mean every time i read some technical article on engines, your always drilled with the saying that torque is more important than KW (or hp).

And no, im not saying that my car is better than any of these, just perplexed as to why thats all!! Explanations needed!

NB: all cars listed are current models, power figures from Motor.
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Old 04-24-2003, 23:55   #2 (permalink)
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The reason the Falcon makes more torque is because it has a large capacity and a long stroke. The others make more power because they rev a hell of a lot more than the BA does. They are designed for top end power not low down and mid range torque like the Barra six.
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Old 04-24-2003, 23:56   #3 (permalink)
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Falcon has the most torque out of those simply due to it being a greater capacity than those engines and its large amount of stroke.

Falcon 95Nm/L
Porsche 104Nm/L
Ferrari 104Nm/L
BMW 114Nm/L

You could destroke the Falcon 6 to 3.6L, which would mean it could rev harder (6500rpm) and make 220Kw+, torque would probably be still around 380Nm, but higher up in the rev range.

If it was built to the same spec as the M3, in theory it would be making 456Nm.....(410Nm if it was 3.6)
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Old 04-25-2003, 03:46   #4 (permalink)
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Mate i have a mate who is a special maths expert also having a degree in applied physics , actually , if the bore of the BA Falcon 4.0Litre 6 is 92.26mm and stroke 99.31mm , if we increase stroke by 1.69mm per cylinder it will generate an extra 6kW per piston that is 36kW x 1.341 = 48Hp. But will not change the engine rpm ranges , but if we , decrease the stroke , by 2mm per each cylinder it will be 3.7Litres and will have 338.1Nm at 3700rpm getting higher as the stroke decreases , by using physics this could be calculated unfortunatelly i can show it to you trough this thread since it is written in Delphi not in C so i cant post advanced greek sysmbols etc.

I have a friend who has a Ford Falcon GLi EL like mine , but his car is stroked , in fact his bore is at massive 100mm and stroke at the same level , the car still has 159kW ofcourse couple extra kW at 4050rpm and massive 552Nm at only 1800rpm , as a mechanics engineer and engine modification expert , what he did i dont really know , "he stroked it " LOL , what math did he use i could assume , but what engine block did he use i have no clue , perhapes he did an extension on the engine , as i m in to Electrics/Electronics/Analogue and Digital also computer hardware , i havent got much knowledge in cars , but his strocked OHC Falcon now has 5.1Litre inlie 6 , so ~5100cc/6=850cc per cylinder , he had to use different con rods to get it right , only thing he did not was engine rpm range , it can only reve up to 4100rpm ~~~ and is too powerful for the gear box also 552Nm estimated at only 1800rpm makes wheels spin at the touch so computer torque control system has no funcyion at all , that is what he said , i m very careful what statements i m making """........

ok i m going home see you tommorrow
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Old 04-25-2003, 09:42   #5 (permalink)
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Matlia - Commas are good, but sometime you need full stops. Interesting information - but I have no idea what you are really saying.

XRSIK - good question - hope you understand the answers! lol.
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Old 04-25-2003, 17:42   #6 (permalink)
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LOL , that is right , i m not using Microsoft Word to correct my self , i write on the run , LOL ,LOL .

What i was saying was about stroking the engine of a Ford Falcon EL , but , but that is not really useful thing to do .
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Old 04-25-2003, 17:56   #7 (permalink)
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OK , correct me in everything if you can ok , if a BA220 is producing 470Nm@3250rpm , that is in simplest estimate 470Nm/3.25 = 145Nm per 1000rpm roughly , of course as it reves up the torques and powers add up and the car has about 420Nm at 2000rpm or more until it reaches its peak at 3250rpm that is 470Nm . So if we speak about stroke , as all new 5.4Litre BA V8 blocks has a stroke of 90.2mm and bore of 105.8mm , if you look at BA inline 6 it has bore of 92.26mm , that is 2.06mm longer , so if we do the very simple math of dividing the BA220 specifications by number of cylinders that is , 470Nm/8 = 59Nm/cylinder so if we divide the BA inline 6 specs it will be 380/6=63.33Nm/cylinder or per cylinder , so if the BA inline six had extra 2 cylinders that would be 63.33 x 8 = 506Nm , and that is massive , but its stroke is smaller and that explains the lower power and also 2 cylinders less and also bigger stroke which prevents it from having more power as well as engine architecture which is completely different from a V8 5408cc engine , BA is only 3984cc like its older brothers ED/EB/EF/EL/AU's , but the heads are different , i don’t know about crank shafts or camshafts as it is a Dual VCT , but i still think that a inline 6 has more torque in terms of real life driving than most other cars .

And also 5408cc/8 = 676cc per cylinder , and BA 6 is only 664cc per cylinder .

These are simple theories which are not really accurate in terms of actual proof , Ford makes the best cars on earth and i hope that they bring out a bigger V8 block something like a 8.0Litre big V8 producing 1500Nm@4000rpm and 750kW@6000rpm and having 4v per cylinder and maximum rpm rnage up to 7000rpm +.
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Old 04-25-2003, 22:10   #8 (permalink)
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ok i understand - its related to capacity - ie bigger capacity = more torque but less revs = less power (kw).

mmm how to up the the torque AND power then at the same time, without decreasing revs??? Oh I know, bolt on a Garret turbo! oops i think i stole that of Ford!

Thanks for all the answers guys!
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0-100 in 6.55 secs.
Forever to live in the shadow of its big brother!
Also - Kawasaki ZZR, soon to be Kawasaki ZX6R.
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Old 04-26-2003, 02:57   #9 (permalink)
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the only way to increase the power and torque is to completelly re engineer the crank shaft AND OR may be NOT change the pistons and replace them with ceramic ones for better thermal resistance so you can reve the engine out of its a s s , in actual words , any car engine can go above 10000rpm but as you know it can {EXPLODE} so 5500-6000-7000 is a computer injection limit , but to really increase power you will need to shave the engine head and thet will get ya power and torque , because is you stroke it the torque will go up in a grat amount but the power will go up too but just to 2-5% to the increased amount of torque . But really , to get it all up you will need higher compression ration diffrent pistons stronger velves and springs better ffictionless camshaft and $50000 to do all that .
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Old 04-26-2003, 03:13   #10 (permalink)
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the other thing is , if the car has big engine capacity it could mean nothing , if for example all BA Falcons with V8 5.4Litres have a stroke of 90.2mm and bore of 105.8mm , you can decrease stroke by 10mm and increase the bore by 10mm , that will be possible since all the engine blocks are big and have thick walls and the diameter can be increased so as Circumference that means less stroke more surface are on the of course piston so when the intake compression {POWER} exaust happen the power will cover bigger surface are and there will be more power , so aproximatelly , if we increase bore of a BA220 for example from 105.2mm to 115.2mm and get the stroke to be 80.2mm , we will have 420Nm@? rpm and 350kW or more @6000rpm + .

But if we keep the stroke at 90.2mm and increase bore to massive 130mm , if that could be done " --- we could get the torque increased to by just a bid , up to about 500Nm still @3250rpm and power to 450kW at 4750rpm because as long as you dont change the stroke the rpm's will be the same all the time , if you change the stroke the cycle in which the 4 strke engine goes will be slightly slower for aobut 2-5ms so it will make it reve faster and engine VELCITY will increase , making it reve higher and have power in higher rpm , BUT not all the time , because i can TALK AND WRITE ALL THIS WORTH LESS STUFF , but i would really have to learn more and have a grat understanding about the engnes architecture and design and its Coefficients max and low of its performances in order to make a comment here , i could just assume and say all this principle stuff ........
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