Weight issue Again!! - Ford Forums

ivorya · 05-16-2003, 20:23

it's been mentioned in the 'Ba2 threads' that the BA 1 Falcons have been Over-engineered which obviously adds weight but increases safety.
My question is if the Holden Commodore is under engineered in comparrison to the falcon than we would have expected the results of the NRMA crash tests to have shown the falcon to be way infront of the commodore.
But they both got a 4-star rating, with some dude saying the falcon was a little better.
Now i've got thick blue-blood running thru my veins, but all i can see this overengineering has done is increased weight by roughly 100kg over the commodore, which has increased fuel comsumption over the commodore, for a meesly 'little better' in the safety rating!!
Now i'm sure the Holden people are probably sitting back quite comfortable and slowly having a chuckle at what is happening.
I'm not saying the BA is crap, I love everything about it, but i think they need to seriously consider reducing the weight of their cars to compete.

O.K i'll get off my soap box now.

flappist · 05-16-2003, 20:36

This whole weight issue is a load of bullshit.
BA is 150 kg heavier than commodore... SO WHAT
It is also heavier than hyundai getz.
150 kg is 2 pax or 1 fat bastard....
The only weight wingers are the 400m junkies. I would much rather have a 2 tonne car that is safe, handles and looks great than a 1.5 tonne roller skate.
If you was a light blattmobile that goes like a cut cat but is a real prick to drive or be a pax in around town or long trips then mitsubishi or suburu will be happy to help you.
N.B at BA GT weighs the same as a BMW M5.

bossxr8 · 05-16-2003, 21:17

Handling, fuel economy, braking and performance would all improve if they were lighter.

The Stylist · 05-16-2003, 23:36

Quote:

Originally posted by ivorya
it's been mentioned in the 'Ba2 threads' that the BA 1 Falcons have been Over-engineered which obviously adds weight but increases safety.
My question is if the Holden Commodore is under engineered in comparrison to the falcon than we would have expected the results of the NRMA crash tests to have shown the falcon to be way infront of the commodore.
But they both got a 4-star rating, with some dude saying the falcon was a little better.
Now i've got thick blue-blood running thru my veins, but all i can see this overengineering has done is increased weight by roughly 100kg over the commodore, which has increased fuel comsumption over the commodore, for a meesly 'little better' in the safety rating!!
Now i'm sure the Holden people are probably sitting back quite comfortable and slowly having a chuckle at what is happening.
I'm not saying the BA is crap, I love everything about it, but i think they need to seriously consider reducing the weight of their cars to compete.

O.K i'll get off my soap box now.

I'll put it to you this way:

How many different types of crashes can you have? - answer hundreds.

How many different types of crashes (non pedestrian) does ANCAP simulate in these latest tests? - answer 2-3.

Now quite a few carmakers these day's also state what I have written - the crashes that EuroNCAP and ANCAP simulate are not representive of real world crashes.

How often do you see these agencies use crash tests that involve two cars crashing into each other at speeds of say around 70Km/h? - never.

How often do you see simulated crashes of cars shunted up the rear at 80Km/h? - never.

How often do you see simulated crashes of cars being rolled 5 times? - never.

If you read into detail on what structural enhancements were added and why to the BA, you will understand why it weighs around 100Kg's more.

Troutman · 05-17-2003, 01:09

Quote:

Originally posted by bossxr8
Handling, fuel economy, braking and performance would all improve if they were lighter.

This lesson was already learned with the XD back in '79!

I agree that the NCAP tests are simplistic, but it's interesting to note that the excellent Renault Laguna - one of the few 5 star cars - weighs as little as 1280 kg unladen. (click here)

Surely a compromise can be found!

Aussie Pete · 05-18-2003, 17:30

Seeing how product development actually works (in my game as well as the car game) a new product always ends up weighing more than they planned. Look at VT Commodore...

The isssue is that at the present time the overall facts are that VY is a comparatively mature design. VT started losing weight gradually and it has flowed on up to VY.

In comparison, BA is relatively new and has many engineering refinements available which no doubt will flow on in steps or as continual improvements later on.

By the way, lessening of weight can actually improve safety, not detract from it. This is because in a single vehicle accident the structure of the car has less energy to dissipate than for a heavy vehicle.

kappie · 05-20-2003, 07:41

Quote:

Originally posted by flappist
This whole weight issue is a load of bullshit.
BA is 150 kg heavier than commodore... SO WHAT

Economy? The BA is *very* thirsty. My EF returned substantially better figures at the pump. 10-11L/100km, with around 8 L/100km freeway. The BA gives me 12-13L/100km and 10L/100km freeway.... I'm just glad I don't live far from work.