351C Gear Drive and more... - Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars
Ford Forum Ford Forum

» Auto Insurance
» Featured Product
ยป Wheel & Tire Center

Go Back   Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars > The Garage - Tech Forums > Trans | Driveline
Register Home Forum Active Topics Photo Gallery Auto Loans Garage Mark Forums Read Auto Escrow

FordForums.com is the premier Ford Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-30-2004, 11:41   #1 (permalink)
Speed Rules!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Midwest
Age: 44
Posts: 6
confused 351C Gear Drive and more...

I have a 351C that came with a Mustang I bought. The motor was built by Indy Performance Mustang in Indianopolis (Link Here) and I believe it is the 351 Economy build
I am planning on putting gear drive in it, but I'm looking for recommended alternatives to Pete Jackson's gear drive (too pricey for me)...but one that doesn't require a bunch of additional work to install (machining the block, etc.).
Also, if anyone has recommendations as to what I can add/tweak to get some more kick out of this motor... I would greatly appreciate it. Its going in a 69 Mustang that will be a weekend warrior only, not daily drivin. I want to do Ford proud should I end up next to a Chevy at a stop light

Thanks!
L8knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-30-2004, 12:33   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Townsville
Age: 41
Posts: 1,212
mad Re: 351C Gear Drive and more...

I am using a Crow and seems to go OK. Speedmaster is also round $300 and works OK. Not as noisy as I thought and wanted !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by L8knight
I have a 351C that I am planning on putting gear drive in it, but I'm looking for recommended alternatives to Pete Jackson's gear drive (too pricey for me)...but one that doesn't require a bunch of additional work to install (machining the block, etc.).
Thanks!
__________________
regards
Stephen
clevo400 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2004, 13:43   #3 (permalink)
'60 F100 Q-Code
 
davis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Washington, USA
Posts: 750
Re: 351C Gear Drive and more...

Quote:
Originally Posted by L8knight
I am planning on putting gear drive in it, but I'm looking for recommended alternatives to Pete Jackson's gear drive (too pricey for me)...but one that doesn't require a bunch of additional work to install (machining the block, etc.).
A quick note about gear drives. There are basically two types commonly found on the market. One is with a fixed idler and the other is with a floating idler. The fixed idler (like Milodon 14200) is rather expensive and involves a minor bit of modification work to the block. A floating idler like the PJ are inexpensive and require no modifications to the block, or very minor clearancing if anything is needed.

Regardless of how much "noise" they make, the floating idlers are a waste of money for anyone who cares about camshaft timing. During rapid acceleration and deceleration of the engine, the floating idler will move up and down the cam gear somewhat effectively adding or subtracting as much as 3-4 degrees of cam timing. While modest camshafts/engine builds may never notice a problem with it, more aggressive builds could encounter P-V problems as well as a notable power decrease as a result of incorrect timing.

There is also a transition from timed as X to timed as Y during the movement of the idler. This transition can effect distributor/ignition timing (advancing/retarding it slightly) and generally make your car very inconsistent or consistently as poor as the characteristics of the floating idler.

As a street use item, it is simply just noisy and expensive. A quality timing gear and chain set will stretch about 3*, but can be preset for that stretch so that the camshaft is properly timed very early after initial startup.

Aussies make one of the best sets of billet timing gears and chain available here and they are only about $65 US. I'm sure that they must be cheaper down under without the added shipping costs!

My advice to anyone investigating gear drives, use a Milodon gear drive or similar with a fixed idler...if you have any regard for accurate valve timing.



:davis:
davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2004, 14:26   #4 (permalink)
Speed Rules!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Midwest
Age: 44
Posts: 6
Re: 351C Gear Drive and more...

Thanks for the great info! Although the engine is mild (320-340HP), I would rather not play with the possible problems you brought up (and I wasn't aware of). With that said, any recommendations for where to buy the Aussie parts? And a question I've been wanting to ask, which may be ignorant on my part, but how interchangable are the 351C parts coming from Australia? I know the Aussie heads are the big part people like to bolt on here, but are there instances where parts coming from down under can not be used on a 351c here? Any good Aussie sites you would recommend for part shopping?

I have all summer for this engine project, so I want to do it right... on a limited budget.
L8knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2004, 16:16   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
xbgs351's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,067
Re: 351C Gear Drive and more...

Quote:
Originally Posted by L8knight
I am planning on putting gear drive in it, but I'm looking for recommended alternatives to Pete Jackson's gear drive (too pricey for me)...but one that doesn't require a bunch of additional work to install (machining the block, etc.).


Thanks!
Why? The sound of it will drive you nuts and make everbody think that you are a poser.

A 9 keyway Rollmaster or Racemaster timing set would be a much better idea. Most US timing sets are rebadged Rollmasters anyway.
xbgs351 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2004, 16:24   #6 (permalink)
'60 F100 Q-Code
 
davis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Washington, USA
Posts: 750
Re: 351C Gear Drive and more...

Quote:
Originally Posted by L8knight
Thanks for the great info! Although the engine is mild (320-340HP), I would rather not play with the possible problems you brought up (and I wasn't aware of). With that said, any recommendations for where to buy the Aussie parts? And a question I've been wanting to ask, which may be ignorant on my part, but how interchangable are the 351C parts coming from Australia? I know the Aussie heads are the big part people like to bolt on here, but are there instances where parts coming from down under can not be used on a 351c here? Any good Aussie sites you would recommend for part shopping?

I have all summer for this engine project, so I want to do it right... on a limited budget.
Well, the way to do it right and on a limited budget is to use the JP Performance Products billet 351C timing set. I used one on my 393 stroker and can vouch for their top-rate quality and value. The part number to use is: JP 5978 and their web site is: JPP

Contact info is:

25-31 Innes Rd
Windsor Gardens
South Australia 5087
Australia

PO Box 21
Greenacres SA 5086
Australia

Phone: +61 (0)8 8261 7222
Fax: +61 (0)8 8261 9171
email: pistons@iweb.net.au

How is a 9-way crank sprocket? You'd never guess they were made in Oz...!




Regarding the use of parts, a 351C is a 351C. The fact that you gents also use the same block for the 302C makes it even easier to swap parts as we never got a 302C from FoMoCo. (Sometimes should have been named MoFoCo!) I can't speak to any extreme on the variations, if they exist (with Ford, there are always variations!)...but the Aussie 351C sounds bolt-for-bolt compatible with the engines here...just a lot more 4-bolt blocks and 4V heads from what I gather when chatting up people.

If someone can get a bunch of the Cleveland water restrictor plates on the cheap, eBay USA is the way to make some real money. One recently sold for $51 US! I'd be happy to help...hint, hint...


:davis:
davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2004, 16:45   #7 (permalink)
Veteran Ford Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: In a Dark Cave
Posts: 5,316
Re: 351C Gear Drive and more...

I wouldn't use a gear drive either. I have been in cars with them and once you get over the novelty the noice really grates.
To each their own though, it's been many moons since I uses JP timing chains and I suspect their quality must have improved.
xacoupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2004, 16:45   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
xbgs351's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,067
Re: 351C Gear Drive and more...

Quote:
Originally Posted by davis
Well, the way to do it right and on a limited budget is to use the JP Performance Products billet 351C timing set. I used one on my 393 stroker and can vouch for their top-rate quality and value. The part number to use is: JP 5978 and their web site is: JPP


:davis:
Looks like a rebadged rollmaster to me!
xbgs351 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2004, 10:12   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Townsville
Age: 41
Posts: 1,212
Re: 351C Gear Drive and more...

Weekend Warriors are only driven on the weekend and a Mustang is a good car to be drivin. If I was at the lights and a Mustang was beside me with a "whirring" sound commin from uunder the bonnet I would think twice before
sayin' or racin' it. Anyway because we run Gear Drives with hot cams we let the engines do the talkin and don't need to race at the lights anymore !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by xbgs351
Why? The sound of it will drive you nuts and make everbody think that you are a poser.

A 9 keyway Rollmaster or Racemaster timing set would be a much better idea. Most US timing sets are rebadged Rollmasters anyway.
__________________
regards
Stephen
clevo400 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2004, 08:03   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
TruBlu351's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 2,398
Re: 351C Gear Drive and more...

I've got at JP Performance gear drive - cost about $320. Can hardly hear it, only very very slight whirr at idle - cruising you hear hardly anything.

I later found out that the square cut gears can be machined for "extra" noise or next to no noise. I obviously bought a quiet one not knowing.

eg: Pete Jackson sell normal gear drives and if the part number has an "N" on the end of it, she's been "machined for extra noise".

You either love them or hate them! Always sparks up a good debate.

Personally I think the "noisy" ones sound great! Got a cheap one off ebay going in on the next cam change!
__________________
XE Falcon
393 Tremec TKO 9"
TruBlu351 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars > The Garage - Tech Forums > Trans | Driveline



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:16.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.