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Old 05-07-2003, 18:29   #1 (permalink)
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c10 or BW auto for TTi6?

Hi all ..

Totally changing direction for a minute.

we are in the process of turboing the daily driver i6 XF.

Here are the proposed details for those that may want to know :

Straight gas
x450 Mixer, X1 convertor
XF efi intake
rebuilt bottom end (just a simple rebuild)
nice rebuilt head
twin gt17's
FMIC
tight BW lsd diff (drum brakes)

The car currently runs pretty much flat 16's over the 1/4 in N/A form on a g-tech (~8sec 0-100)


now .. we have a few auto choices ...

we have 2 BW autos, .. a c10,

.. and about 4 or 5 other bw/c4/c10's lying about that a few friends have (they love manuals - and refuse to use autos).

1 fitted to the car in ok condition (groans a bit under *heaps* of load .. ie: stalling it up when staging)

1 in unknown condition (was told that it was a good one when i picked it up off a friend)

the c10 has been rebuilt prior to going into 'storage' .. but was ok up till then. it has a 2200 stall convertor aswell.

what i am asking is although a toploader will most likely be the choice for us later on, .. how should the autos hold up for now?

how much power do they usually hold before dieing?

should I use the c10 1st?

will the 2200 stall off the c10 be able to be used on the BW's?

ok .. thats enough questions for now :)

-Ac
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Old 05-07-2003, 18:57   #2 (permalink)
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Sorry i dont know much about the autos except that jason with a turbo XE on fullboost is running a 3 speed BW box although modified. He has 348Kw at the wheels.

Are you running 16's with the turbos or without? What did you do to your bottom end and where did you get it done? and how much?

Thanks for your help.
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Old 05-07-2003, 20:47   #3 (permalink)
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"Are you running 16's with the turbos or without? What did you do to your bottom end and where did you get it done? and how much?"

16's without the turbos, .. that was after the addition of the lsd. I have no idea how the new combo will go!

I am taking a spare engine to the go-fast shop either this weekend or within a week.

The details have been roughed out over the phone, .. but the specifics are going to be defined when we determine how greedy we are going to get. I am thinking that 250rwhp will be a maximum figure that I will aim for, .. I think that should equate to ~10psi with these turbos.

I am trying to keep the costs down :)

when the bottom end is finalised (should be very soon) I'll post it here.

-Ac
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Old 05-07-2003, 21:55   #4 (permalink)
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Firstly no-one will have a C10 lying around because there is no such thing.
What it will be is a flarecase (164tooth flywheel)C4 with 26spline input shaft and pan fill dipstick.
A C4 is the toughest and best choice for your turbo. There are six cylinder C4's out there. They have the small diameter bellhousing and case fill dipstick tube.
I think the stock converter will be fine for those small turbos which should spool up quickly.

Pete.
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Old 05-07-2003, 22:59   #5 (permalink)
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"Firstly no-one will have a C10 lying around because there is no such thing.
What it will be is a flarecase (164tooth flywheel)C4 with 26spline input shaft and pan fill dipstick. "

That is right, .. I am only calling it a c10 because that is what it has been described to me as.

it looks like a c4, .. but with the dipstick in the pan, as you say.

Sorry if I offend ford purists :) ..

"A C4 is the toughest and best choice for your turbo. There are six cylinder C4's out there. They have the small diameter bellhousing and case fill dipstick tube."

This may well be what I have, .. it sounds right. Keeping in mind that it is still pretty much stock .. how much power would you limit yourself to with a c4?

"I think the stock converter will be fine for those small turbos which should spool up quickly."

Unfortunatley, .. the 2200 stall is the only one that I have for the c4. I have 2 stock ones for the BW's

are they interchangable?

-Ac
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Old 05-07-2003, 23:44   #6 (permalink)
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I know a guy with a c4 in an xe with 500 rwhp (wouldnt mind one of them hehe) :)

It hasnt had that much work done to it...so you should be fine.


Thanks


Dane.
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Old 05-08-2003, 05:30   #7 (permalink)
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Ok Acur8,

That C4 is a V8 one right? I never seen a flare case 6cyl bell so you may not be able to use it. You'll probably have to find a 6cyl C4 somewhere else.
As for being a "Ford purist" yes I am, what else would you expect on a Ford Forum? You didn't offend me either.
I just corrected your mistake.
A six cylinder C4 will handle enormous power if built correctly. For example my XR 351W went 12.79 @ 115mph with a six cyl C4.

Pete.
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Old 05-08-2003, 16:15   #8 (permalink)
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"That C4 is a V8 one right? I never seen a flare case 6cyl bell so you may not be able to use it. You'll probably have to find a 6cyl C4 somewhere else."

Its off a 6 cyl originally when I purchased the silver donor XF for the big injected clevo.

The bloke had a warm 250 on straight gas, with this c4 hooked up to it.

It had been a fairly hot little engine in its day, .. but the car was a bit worn and was relegated to towing duty for his boat.

the stall was put in to help him tow (and the fact that the cam range was fairly high)


"As for being a "Ford purist" yes I am, what else would you expect on a Ford Forum? You didn't offend me either.
I just corrected your mistake."

You took my comments a little too much to heart. I was just putting my side across that, although I love my Fords, I'll be the first to admit that I dont know everything about them :)

hence the smiley and the comment in line with that I am not 100% enlightened in regards to all the specifics :)

It have always been mentioned that I had a 'c10' in the corner of the shed. When I built up my other auto for the v8, the auto builder called it a c10 aswell .. lol .. I'll just call it a c4 from now on.

"A six cylinder C4 will handle enormous power if built correctly. For example my XR 351W went 12.79 @ 115mph with a six cyl C4."

well .. I am hoping not to spend any more money on it, .. so its built as well as its going to be. Its in stock trim as far as I know, so when / if it goes .. I'll be looking at the manual route.

Thanks heaps for your input though, .. I really appreciate it.

-Ac
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Old 05-08-2003, 18:42   #9 (permalink)
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No wuckers dude,

I didn't take it to heart..I saw your smiley. If I did I would have been swearing and stuff.
Anyway I think that C4 gearbox should be the one to use. I'd try that 2200 stall seing as you've got it too...you can always take it out later.
Yeah i reckon Auto trans shops are the perpetrators of this whole C9,C10 bullshit terminology.

Pete.
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Old 05-09-2003, 03:31   #10 (permalink)
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I don't know where all the c9/c10 stuff started but it seems to be australian anyway..Here's a bit of an explanation on how to tell from another forum..C4,5,9 and C10 are all basically the same trans with some differences between them. These are some of the differences:

C4 -
Smaller 24 spline input shaft
Bellhousing and pump share same bolts
trans casing has a 'step' at the front near the bell
filler tube enters case
breather tube exits case near selector lever

C5/C9 -
Larger 26 spline input shaft
Bellhousing and pump share same bolts
trans casing has a 'step' at the front near the bell
filler tube enters case
breather 'cap' in trans extension housing at top
C5 pan has larger capacity than C9 pan

C10 -
Larger 26 spline input shaft
Bellhousing and pump use seperate bolts
trans case has smooth transition to bellhousing mount
filler enters pan
breather 'cap' in trans estension housing

This is how to id them externally. There are minor differences internally so some parts won't interchange, ie valve bodies.
C10 Bellhousing won't fit C4,5 and C9 however C4,5 and C9 bellhousing will fit C10 with longer pump bolts. I believe all C10 bellhousings are designed for the larger 164 tooth flex however C4-C9 housings are available for 164 or 157 tooth flex.

C5,9 and C10 are slightly stronger due to larger input shaft. Beyond that there ain't much difference. Things to watch when swapping is to use the correct bellhousing and converter(24 or 26 spline, 157 or 164 tooth flex compatibility) and also use the correct valve body if swapping.
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