High stall torque converters - Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars

Cobra · 02-09-2004, 01:22

Has anyone put them in tier late model Falcon? I don't know much about them. I have a basic knowlege on how autos work. I know the components. Maybe someone can run through the exact reason why you put a high stall in and how high you should go for street use. SOme poeple say 2000 or 2500 for street. I am told it will be sluggish till you get to the rpm which it is rated at but will be quicker when you do get there. I am also advised that by getting one its also recommended getting a cam to suit the power range and maybe some taller final drive ratios.

not ford · 02-09-2004, 01:48

Its the other way round, you NEED a higher stall convertor to suit a large cam. This is because 99% of larger (at least 20 degrees larger than std) cams lose low rpm torque. This reduced torque makes the car labour more at idle and low speed due to the factory torque convertor being now being too "tight".

Having too high a stall convertor does make a car sluggish at everything up to brisk (<3/4) acceleration. The 4.0 OHC motors have about a 2100rpm (actual) stall convertor, I personally believe the factory were snorting coke when they choose this stall speed. This is the main reason the boxes run so hot, due to slippage. It also feels too doughy for my liking at mild (granny) acceleration. From a stand still the engine rpms almost always jerks up to about 1800rpm (at least 1500rpm), I think this may be another by product also but I am not sure.

Also at the other end of the scale having the car with too low a stall convertor will make the car slam into gear and then labour and act gutless just off idle. But the car will feel more direct and less doughy on accerlerator application especially when coming "onto the cam". This is because most people pull their dicks out and bullshit their power and specs to the convertor manufacturers and end up with too high a stall.

Cobra · 02-09-2004, 02:12

Right, thanks for that. So I am guessing there is no real need for a high stall unless I do a cam? I drive an AU1 XR8 and If i did a cam, depending on what grind I got, I am thinking that cam suppliers would recommend the best stall to suit thier cam.

Walkinshaw · 02-09-2004, 02:42

a 2500 stall will definatly help over the factory 1800 crapper. Dominator make one iirc with lockup so it should all be good.

TwinPiston · 02-09-2004, 03:34

There is a guy that has a stall converter on this forum in an AUII XLS V8 ute, but he also changed it to a C10 3 speed, but he may be able to help a little more with any queries. His log on name is the same as what I have in capitals above, I think.

Cobra · 02-09-2004, 04:01

His log in name is what? Why the hell would you put a C10 in a new car?

not ford · 02-09-2004, 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

a 2500 stall will definatly help over the factory 1800 crapper. Dominator make one iirc with lockup so it should all be good.

Why would you do this on a street car with a stock or mild cam??

This would be the biggest waste of money which would probably show some small improvement on the strip at the cost of a hotter tranny and worse fuel economy.

IMO unless your car is some weekend warrior, or street strip weapon you don't need a stally. If you do your cam is too big.

Walkinshaw you are turboing your car, if its a street car putting a stally in it is the stupidest thing in the world. Turbos make boost against load, you would reduce this effect with a stally and the extra torque would flash the convertor probably another 800rpm at least when the turbo comes onto boost, especially at your hp goals (400ish fwhp).

Putting a stally on a car which doesn't need it will also reduce your rev range.

I'll tell you now Ford OHC I6 motors don't need a stally for the street full stop.

Also even if you have a lock up convertor that doesn't mean you go ballistic with the stall speed and expect the lock up to bring the revs back down. Lock up basically only works on the highway, you need to keep the revs constant for time 'x' and most are factory set to work in 4th gear only.

not ford · 02-09-2004, 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobra

Right, thanks for that. So I am guessing there is no real need for a high stall unless I do a cam? I drive an AU1 XR8 and If i did a cam, depending on what grind I got, I am thinking that cam suppliers would recommend the best stall to suit thier cam.

The best way is to cam it then stick it on a chasis dyno. You can then read the actual rpm the car comes on to the cam and actual rwhp and torque.

If you then give these "real" figuires to the convertor builder he should be able to build the right convertor for you first time to suit your exact needs.

Cobra · 02-09-2004, 05:00

okay thanks. I am putting a shift kit in and alot of poeple are teling me t put stall in. I didn't really understand how they worked. I gathered the concept was that I could stall the car up to 2500rpm before it would do a skid as apposed to 1800rpm for a normal stall converter.

I'll save my money for engine mods. After I do cam, head work and other thgins I'll weigh up whats what and see if a stall would be benefical. All i wanted out of this thread was to gain a better understanding of it and abit of adivce on weather they are worth it and what set up would and woulndt be.

Thanks guys, keep the opinions rolling.

Walkinshaw · 02-09-2004, 05:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by not ford

Why would you do this on a street car with a stock or mild cam??

This would be the biggest waste of money which would probably show some small improvement on the strip at the cost of a hotter tranny and worse fuel economy.

IMO unless your car is some weekend warrior, or street strip weapon you don't need a stally. If you do your cam is too big.

Walkinshaw you are turboing your car, if its a street car putting a stally in it is the stupidest thing in the world. Turbos make boost against load, you would reduce this effect with a stally and the extra torque would flash the convertor probably another 800rpm at least when the turbo comes onto boost, especially at your hp goals (400ish fwhp).

Putting a stally on a car which doesn't need it will also reduce your rev range.

I'll tell you now Ford OHC I6 motors don't need a stally for the street full stop.

Also even if you have a lock up convertor that doesn't mean you go ballistic with the stall speed and expect the lock up to bring the revs back down. Lock up basically only works on the highway, you need to keep the revs constant for time 'x' and most are factory set to work in 4th gear only.

Very good points that i hadnt thaught of. My comment regarding the 2500stall was mainly aimed towards people wanting to run a low diff (3.9/4.11) and use their car as a bit of an NA weekend cruise/strip car.

I know turbo torque will flash the converter up, but i wouldnt have thaught 800rpm! mabey 2 or 300. But if it does i should beable to crusie arround off boost up to arround 2800, then with full throttle boost should really come on arround 2500 and with the stock stall + torque induced flash it should workout nicely.

Cheers for the information

Daniel.