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Old 10-14-2002, 16:03   #1 (permalink)
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Question T5 into an XE ESP

Hi folks,

We are currently rebuilding the motor in an XE ESP. The car was originaly a 302 / C4 auto but was fitted with a Mick Webb 351 and top loader. The 351 blew a welsh plug at Eastern Creek and had a mild overheat . To get the engine / chasis numbers matching again, the original 302 block is now being fitted with the 351 crank, heads, rods etc with new slugs and cam. At the same time we are looking to convert it to a 5 speed and lower the diff ratio.

Now we have had a lot of conflicting advice about the T5... Are there two (or more) versions ? One for a V8 and one for a 6 cyl ? It has been suggested that we get the T5 out of an E-series XR8, although I am guessing the Windsor bellhousing wont match up, and the clutch will have to change to a cable setup. Any comments / suggestions here? Obviously a Tremec would be the choice but having spent $7k on the motor we are a little shy of the required funds.

The original diff (BW 8" LSD) is a 2.92 and thus a little tall for the occasional fang and track use the car is taken on. Any suggestions on a suitable ratio match for a T5? We aren't after a strip animal - rather a good street / track combo. Wheel and tyre combo is 17's with 45 series rubber.

Attached is a pic of the car if anyone is interested. Last year it was treated to a bare metal respray and a lot of time has been spent bringing the car back to a showable condition. Obviously the suspension has been dropped with new components throughout, including mostly Nolathane. Quite a nice steer for a big old car. We have the original wheels but I think you'll agree the Prowlers look better.

TIA - Pat & Andrew Sproule
APS351
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Old 10-14-2002, 16:14   #2 (permalink)
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Nice looking set of wheels there mate, I wish my XD looked that good.

Before even thinking about the gearbox change your diff ratio to 3.5:1 or lower, if you are doing some strip work I would go with 3.73:1 to be on the safe side. If you go higher than this to say 3.23:1 or more YOU WILL DESTROY YOUR T5 as long as the sun rises I can garauntee you that.

I don't recommend you use the 6 cylinder T5 even though there is little disparity with torque handling figures, 5th is a little tall and IMO you would be better off with the V8 ford version. I dare say though you will not have an issue with clutch etc and tailshaft should be the same length, you will need to have an adapter made, or redrill the existing toploader bellhousing. Though at present the bellhousing depths between windsor and cleveland seem to have slipped my mind.

Hope this helps you.

And for gods sake no matter what anyone tells you, please put ATF in the transmission and not gear oil as I all too often see.

Cheers mate.
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Old 10-14-2002, 18:01   #3 (permalink)
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I'd stick with a re-worked auto....nothing better than a C4 with 4000rpm stall.....ooohhh yea!
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Old 10-15-2002, 00:55   #4 (permalink)
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I don't have any recommendations apart from the one regarding the oil. Yes, use ATF, or there is a manual spec gear oil by Valvolene I think. Basically the same as ATF but no red dye. My Dad uses it in his workshop on gearboxes that require it.
What's the chances of a hi-res copy of that pic??
Great looking car!!

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Old 10-15-2002, 03:26   #5 (permalink)
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drop an email to mal wood in warwick, QLD. he may be able to answer this for you.
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Old 10-15-2002, 03:49   #6 (permalink)
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There are about three different gearset in the T5 - the box you've had recommended is a closer ratio but has a slightly higher 5th than the 6 cyl boxes. I think 0.73 in the 8 against 0.78 for the 6s.

You don't want to go to low (speed) with your dif as you'll have trouble getting traction in first which on all T5s is nice and low.

I have 3.23 with a 3.5 first gear - you could go to 3.45 diff with the V8 box - as for a bellhousing to suit with the hydraulic clutch contact Dellow Automotive in Padstow (Sydney). You can have cable clutch if you like but I would strongly recommend the hyd.
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Old 10-15-2002, 15:58   #7 (permalink)
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Thanks for all the info and suggestions folks. We will be following them up. I had forgotton about Mal Wood. He might be able to source a box for us. Looks like a 3.45 to 1 ratio might be the go. We dont want to go a whole lot taller since the car is more of a cruiser than a strip machine. The overdrive 5th in the T5 should help anyway.

I had also forgotten about the different 1'st cog ratios in the V8 and 6 cyl T5's. I looked the ratios up in a workshop manual following that comment.

I knew about the ATF for a T5. I found out when I changed it in our EA S. It's amazing how many people get it wrong though and then complain about shift quality etc. I was also a bit surprised that the old single rail 4 speeds use common engine oil (at least that's what the book said for an XD).

I guess the only other question is will the T5 handle the extra grunt? We are not sure what the motor will pull but it is being built for strong mid rev range performance. The engine builder is aiming for around 400 flywheel hp. I'm guessing the box will be a bit marginal.

I take your comments about the clutch setup. I am a bit loathe to go cable but that is what we were originaly told would have to happen. If Dellow makes a suitable bellhousing it will save us having to change the pedal etc. Does a T5 have a different sized / splined input shaft ? The current twin plate clutch is in good nick and if it can stay - all the better.

Anyways - thanks for all your input. This is a great forum that I follow religiously.

Per your request - I have hastly thrown a page together here : http://athene.csu.edu.au/~psproule/aps351. I don't have any more pics but next time I am with the car I'll take some.

Regards - Pat Sproule.
www.patski.cjb.net
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Old 10-16-2002, 04:46   #8 (permalink)
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Pat ... pretty sure you can use your twin clutch but in all honesty I would use a single plate 10 and 3/4 inch from XE EFI motor. Again Dellows are the ones who can give you all the gen on this. I changed mine from cable to hyd on my ZL and have had no probs - cables cause too much stress on the firewall - not so bad on XEs but real bad on XFs as they lightened the firewall pressing.

The T5 will be at it's limit or beyond but as long as you don't do stupid things they are a good box IMO.
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