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Ford EEC-IV?

4K views 17 replies 8 participants last post by  XR9UTE 
#1 ·
I direct this question mainly to Pete (XR9UTE) and please excuse my naivety can you use the ford EEC-IV in conjunction with the downdraught webers style throttle body injection system?
 
#3 ·
CFI engine? You still need 2 injectors for each weber style throttle-bodies, one for each cylinder. Are we talking a 6 or 8 cyl car?

How would the EEC-IV determine airflow (single MAF ) with multiple weber style throttle-bodies? Would they all draw through a single plenum?

Not that I have a clue about this stuff - just casual obsevations.
 
#5 ·
RAPTOR said:
CFI engine? You still need 2 injectors for each weber style throttle-bodies, one for each cylinder. Are we talking a 6 or 8 cyl car?

How would the EEC-IV determine airflow (single MAF ) with multiple weber style throttle-bodies? Would they all draw through a single plenum?

Not that I have a clue about this stuff - just casual obsevations.
EEC-IV dont need a MAF do they??, my 6Cyl has a MAP and no MAF?:eek:o1:
 
#8 ·
RAPTOR said:
MAF, MAP whatever (I hate acronyms)

They both determine the engines air requirements, no?
I'll probably end up crawling back to my cage, too, because I'm relying on my geriatric memory, but I think MAP is manifold absolute pressure and measures barometric and manifold air pressure to determine fuel/air ratio for injectors. I think MAF is mass air flow that gives a more accurate measure of the air passing through, but don't know how, and gives a more accurate fuel/air ratio related to the donk's requirements.

I thought MAP was for 6 cyl EFI, both CFI and MPI, and MAF for V8 SEFI.
 
#9 ·
EA S

You can stay out of you'r cage..Prety well spot on...I.M.O
You wouldn't need a common throttle body with map..
As there is NO senser used.
Maf's work on a hot wire in a air flow.As you know elecricity heats up the conductor where there is a resistance.
The eec measure the volts that passes through it.The more air
the more cooling there is on this wire [like an element] the eec
reads this as volume/ mass..There often is another wire there
to measure ambiant temp as well."Mass air" is what it's often called in the states.. Did I get that right Anakha????
maf=mass air flo / map=speed density[6 cyl & f150v8]
 
#10 ·
You're on the money with the MAF ebxr8240 but at least on the Ford MAP vehicles the air mass entering the engine is inferred by a combination of the MAP, TPS and ACT sensors. Not sure how they do it where multiple throttle bodies are used like on V8 Supercars.

This is why MAP vehicles are more sensitive to engine mods. As the engine's volumetric efficency changes (like heads/cam) the stock programming no longer gets accurate info on the actual air mass entering engine (because it is inferred not directly measured) and thus the car runs worse.

MAF vehicles can run into similar problem if the engine is modified enough to ingest a heap more air. The MAF sensor can only read up to a particular mass of air depending on meter size and when this limit is reached the car will lean out. This is known as 'pegging' the MAF and often happens when the car is super/turbo-charged. In these cases the options are either get a bigger MAF or tweak the MAF to allow reading larger amounts of air.
 
#11 ·
V8 Supercars don't use the EEC though right?? The Motec system would allow for the measurement of the air goin into each ram tube, no?? I'm pretty sure there'd be mass air meters within each ram tube because they'd need this info for data logging/tuning. Please shut me down if i'm at all incorrect here, coz i probably don't really have much of an idea about this at all.
 
#12 ·
Yea I think in the shell cars they are only inerested in acceleration or w.o.t [wide open throttle].So tuning for cruse is not 100 % required.Most these systems[Motec] are map but tuned with the high flo,big cams etc there systems are possibly less tech than eec in some ways,no epa to worry about etc.They buck and carry on as well at low revs [under say 3k rpm]
Notice the Corsa had the maf bi passed,they run an aftermarket ecu..
 
#13 ·
low428 said:
I direct this question mainly to Pete (XR9UTE) and please excuse my naivety can you use the ford EEC-IV in conjunction with the downdraught webers style throttle body injection system?
In theory you could but it'll take alot of work.
a) you would need to build a plenum to cover the intake of the webbers.
b) you will need an inlet tract with a mass air sensor.
c) you will need to rig up a TPI on the butterfly linkages as the EEC will need to know throttle position.
d) some EEC's that are mass sensored do have a MAP sensor to allow for changes in altitude. The EEC-V and GEN III have this.
e) idle control. Hard one.

The EEC-IV would be very hard to do with webbers. Get a Haltech or MOTEC ecu
 
G
#14 ·
G'day low428,

Yes you can use an EECIV or V on an engine with weber style t-bodies.
Starting with the most desirable SEFI MAF EEC:
If you use a MAF type EEC you will need a common plenum for the t-bodies to breath through which will allow the MAF to measure the total Airflow(you could make it out of carbon fibre). For Idle control you'll need to connect the ISC valve to a manifold with a series of conections to each t-body below the throttle blade...much like you would need to connect your brake booster.

You could use a Speed Density EEC which will require the same ISC valve/manifold arrangement. It will also require a smaller diameter version of the same manifold for MAP sensor connection.
Being Speed Density increases the need to be able to recalibrate the EEC due to large overlap camshafts causing fluctuating manifold pressure and hence incorrect fueling/load calculations. There are some options ie: '86-'89('88 California) 5.0 HO SEFI Speed Density EECIV has some EEC-Tuner support and could be used, '93 Lightning 5.8 Bank fired Speed Density EECIV has much EEC-Tuner support and has the advantage of E4OD electronic trans control(if you want to go that way).

Something to note; All EA up six cylinders are Speed Density some central(CFI) injected and all others multipoint Bank Fired(injectors fired in two groups of three). AU up 4.0L appears(has 6 injector outputs instead of two) to be SEFI (Sequential) but still Speed Density. All EB up V8's are MAF SEFI.

MAF SEFI is certainly the best way to go.
What engine are we talking about here? A 428 pray tell?

Pete.
 
#15 ·
The 460 has efi from the States..Latter models !! $$$
 
G
#16 ·
ebxr8240 said:
The 460 has efi from the States..Latter models !! $$$
Yes these, like other truck 5.0/5.8's are Speed Density, Bank fired(two groups of four) up until about '95 or '96 when they went Mass Air SEFI(and EECV). Some earlier small block trucks were Mass Air in California only where emissions laws are much stricter.
Actually the 460 EFI is a good source of 24lb injectors and a TFI-IV dizzy that will drop straight into a cleveland. If you're converting a cleveland to EFI of course.

Pete.
 
#17 ·
Thanks for the input.

Thanks to everyone who responded to my question, and as I was expecting if I was to use the Ford EEC I would have to make a plenum. I wanted to avoid this as I would like to keep the throttle bodies exposed not covered up. I guess my only solution is Motec or similar and yes Pete (XR9UTE) you hit the nail on the head it is a 428.
Paul.
 
G
#18 ·
A 428 EEEEEEcellent!,

Remember you could use a Speed density EEC from a Lightning for example and use no plenum. Then you just tune with an EEC-Tuner.

Of course weber style intakes are not good for low to mid performance. Therefore you may consider an EFI Intake like the one I will be using on my 390 FE. A Tunnel-wedge 8V style intake plumbed for injectors with a Thunderbolt plenum mounted on top and a Ford racing oval blade t-body on one side and the other side filled in. This allows it to use a MAF system and produce mind numbing torque.

Pete.
 
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