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Old 11-29-2004, 01:40   #1 (permalink)
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Question Hiclones

Hey everyone. now i know some of you are going to call me a greedy little bitch because my 2004 fiesta only uses like 6L per 100km
but i have been considering running my car on a dyno now to see what power i have.. then buying two hiclones, doing the dyno again and fitting airfilter to see if it gives me more power... then try it on the road for a couple weeks and see if i get any better fuel economy.
What i was wondering was, has anyone had any experiences with the Hiclone products and if so what are your opinions etc :)
i think there like $150 aussie bucks each.. so there fairly expensive, but they do have a 30day money back satisfaction guarantee.
anyway.. eveyrone fire away and tell me what you think?!
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Old 11-29-2004, 07:27   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Hiclones

I have no experience with them but have always been interesed - still am kinda curious to try one. Here on the forums before I've seen mainly negative comments (at least re. petrol engines) but not totally negative ie. they have good and bad aspects I think. I must say I've spoken to several people in real life who have used them and claim pretty great results. So who knows yet - I'm still deceiding myself.

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Old 11-29-2004, 14:29   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Hiclones

well i guess theres no harm in trying.
apparently two give much better results than one. you place one just after your airfilter and one within a few inches of your throttle body.
itd be nice cutting down fuel costs and gaining torque when you need it.
If you do decide to try a couple out id go with dyno test aswel. and apparently your car needs like a week of normal driving for it to make new airfuel settings etc???
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Old 11-29-2004, 14:34   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Hiclones

Just found a product thats easier on the pocket and looks like itd do just the same..
www.turbonator.com
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Old 11-29-2004, 18:49   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Hiclones

I have a friend that had one of these type of things called a "green turbo" - essentially a plastic fan that spun on its own due to the incoming air.

Anyway it was on a diesel Hilux and there when he bought it. After a few months the engine siezed and he had to rebuid it. Guess what happened? The bearing from this "green turbo" failed, caused the fan to stick and come loose, the bearings fell out and went down the guts of the engine!!!

Morale of the story - don't put things with bearings in the air intake.

I know that the Hiclones are static but there are heaps of different things around the same..

If you try em out be very objective about any changes and let us all know!

Dan..
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Old 11-29-2004, 20:37   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Hiclones

Every car manufacturer spends millions of dollars trying to meet emission and economy requirements. If these things did anything at all they would be installed by every car manufacturer in the world. The theory works on older carby engines where the swirling air allows better fuel atonomisation. On modern EFI engines, the long runner intakes means that all the swirling has stopped well before it gets to the fuel injectors.
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Old 11-30-2004, 07:41   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Hiclones

Mitch_lx - I dunno about the Fiesta as I dunno what computer it uses, but with Falcons, if you go through the correct reset and re-learn procedure for the computer then you don't need to wait for a couple of weeks and it's a better way to do it anyway. The Turbonator looks alright but I'd be a little wary - the Hiclone is the only 'well proven' device of it's type that I know of. There are probably a lot of similar looking products around but just cause they look the same doesn't mean the performance will be anywhere near the same - from what I've heard there's a hell of a lot of engineering/airflow dynamics etc. involved in these and Hiclone were the first to perfect it. You never know - the Turbonator may even be better but I'd stick with what I 'know', at least as a reference and then try different ones later maybe.

EDXR8 - You have a valid point but I beg to differ. Nothing is more important to car manufacturers than saving every single cent that they can. They only meet emission requirements etc. because the law says they have to, and they will do it in the cheapest way possible, oftern at the expense of other things (performance for example). By saying that Hiclones would be installed by every manufacturer if they did anything is wrong I think. We all know they K&N air filters and Pacemaker headers (for example) do a great job of reducing emmisions and improving fuel economy as well as performance - everything a car manufacturer wants - why then doesn't every manufacturer fit them? Cause it would cost a little more (not to mention lost revenue in replacement paper air filters in the parts department in the case of the air filter). I could give many similar examples but you see what I mean? They can still meet the legal requirements allbeit with a little less performance/efficiency by other means with cheaper manufacturing costs.

The point you make about working on carbys but not EFI's with longer runners is very valid, but only if you believe that Hiclones work by creating the swirl effect into the combustion chamber. Most people think this is how they work and even Hiclone themselves advertise that this is what they do, so people may disagree with me here but I just don't buy it. I have another theory on how/why they work on EFI engines. To summerize it briefly, they simply are a device which accellerates/compresses the air passing through them. Fact is air is moving faster when it leaves the hiclone than when it enters which creates a low pressure side and high pressure side and effectively compresses the air like a passive supercharger effect kinda. So even though the swirl pattern is lost by the time the air reaches the cylinders, the point is the vortex has already done it's work in compressing the air so you simply get a greater volume/density of air into the cylinders. That's what I reckon anyway. Why do Hiclone advertise that the vortex goes into the combustion chamber and works that way? - I dunno, maybe it's just simpler from a marketing point of view than trying to explain airflow dynamics in a 30 sec. TV add etc.

Anyway, it's all theory until I can try some, but that's my thoughts anyway.

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Old 11-30-2004, 17:26   #8 (permalink)
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Thumbs up Re: Hiclones

thank you very much for that, very good read. the guys had actualy pretty much convinced me not to get one.. but after reading that well i think im keen to try a couple out. ill put one at the exit of airfilter box and one near the throttle body.. i should probly stick to hiclone aswell :)
I will let you guys know when i do this and see if i notice any results. thanks for all your opinions. ill probly get it done after christmas when i have a bit more cash. but ill get it ona dyno and show u guys results.
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Old 11-30-2004, 22:19   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Hiclones

I know what you are saying Steve, but I still think you will see that car manufacturers would install them if they did even 1/10th of what they claim. K&N airfilters are proven to hardly do anything on a stock engine and extractors are much more expensive to produce and usually result is far higher emissions and problems with vehicle assembly which would rule them out of all but performance vehicles. The hiclone on the other hand couldbe manufactured for very little money and is very easy to install. I have seen the results of hiclones and similar products and have never been impressed or seen any real improvement, in fact on high output and large engines (like the falcon) you may see a reduction in performance due to the restriction it can cause with high flow.

As for the thory on how they work creating low pressure and high pressure zones, yes that is exactly how the vortex principle works. The swirling and higher velocity creates a low pressure zone and sucks the air through. But again, on long runner engines it just wont work. Take the EFI 5L for example, you will probably install it 6" from the throttle body at least, then it has to go through the turbulence of the throttle body, along almost 12" of intake runner into the plenum, turn 180 degrees and then travel another 6-12" to the cylinders. The I6 doesn't have as long runners but still any effect will not last past the plenum chamber.

Mitch_lx, if you want to try it go ahead, it will be interesting to see if you get any results, but IMO spend the money on some other mods or save it for petrol.
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Old 12-01-2004, 03:27   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Hiclones

EDXR8 - Yeah, I do understand the points you're making but must say I still don't agree with some of them entirely. I could well be wrong of course but just stating my opinion for the sake of discussion anyway. I think how cheap the Hiclone would be to make is a relative term - it's probably quite expensive on mass manufacturing terms for what it is I would have thought as it can't just be simply and roughly cast, moulded or pressed like a lot of parts are - it needs to be made from multiple pieces which are individually cut/pressed and then assembled and has to be done with _relative_ prescision as the design needs to be implemented accuratley for it to work properly and not just act as a restriction. Anyway, I dunno, but one thing which you imply in your post is something I do agree with and that's the fact that the effectivness of the Hiclone is probably quite varied between different sizes, types of engines and intake system designs etc. That's probably why I've heard some people claim great results and others claim nothing. As for my examples of headers and K&N etc. they were probably pretty poor examples but I was just trying to make a point (although I did think that headers - if implemented properly - should reduce emissions).

I apologise if I'm wrong here but I don't think you are getting the point of my 'theory' - you are saying that the vortex/swirl effect etc. is lost as the air travels past all the post-throttle body obstructions etc. and that bit I totally agree with, but that's not the point. Simply the increased air-pressure is the point I'm making. If you increase the air-pressure past a certain point, then the pressure may drop off to some extent the further it travels of course, but should still reach it's destination at a higher pressure(/density) than it would if it started out at a lower pressure. Put it this way - imagine that the Hiclone was a mechanical supercharger - all air in the intake system on the output side of the supercharger would always be greater pressure than what it naturally would be, so the cylinders receive a denser air-charge and exhaust gasses are excavated more efficiently etc. I'm saying that the Hiclone is basically a very small supercharger - because it's effect is so small, it means there is no positive pressure generated in the intake, but vacuum is decreased under throttle load which has the same effect but to a smaller degree - turbulence and air-flow patterns 'post-hiclone' don't really matter.

Anyway, like I say it's all theory and I may have the wrong idea. It'll be good to see how Mitch_lx goes if he tries 'em and one day when I have a bit of spare money I may try 'em on the XR8 (especially if they have a money back garuntee) - in a way it'd be a bad thing if they work on my car as I wouldn't be able to get my Herrod SS intake pipe LOL.

Steve.
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