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Oils aint oils

5K views 37 replies 15 participants last post by  STROKEXD 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi all,

I own an ed falcon 4.0lt automatic sedan and am about to do its 250 000km oil change

Are there any specific oils you guys who drive the same sorta thing reccomend? Any good/bad experiences with different brands/grades?

The car does have some mods, headwork, cam, extractors & exhaust, and i do give it a bit > not all the time just sometimes

Cheers. :hy:

Rob.
 
#3 ·
Maybe a specific higher milage oil thats 30/60 or visc numbers near that..Caltex and others make such an oil....
 
#5 ·
for an older engine id go a penrite hpr50. I use hpr30 in every of the family's cars, used hpr40 in my rebuilt toyota engine. Will run hpr30 in my 302 without hesitation. Love the mineral based oils from penrite. I also use their LSD oil and Gearbox oil also. Can't reccomend higher of it.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Off topic:
Pennzoil-Quaker State. Corp. was bought by Royal Dutch/Shell on October 1, 2002.
Under the transaction, Shell Oil Company will acquire Pennzoil-Quaker State Company through a cash merger. Completion of the transaction is subject to approval by Pennzoil-Quaker State Company stockholders and customary reviews by regulatory agencies in the United States and other relevant jurisdictions. It is expected that the transaction will be completed in the second half of 2002 and be accretive to Shell’s earnings and cash flow from the first full year after completion.



On topic: Check out the Penrite range of oils, good stuff at a reasonable price.

cheers
 
#7 ·
Thanks fellas,

I finally got some time to do it last night, been 5400kms since last oil change. Anyway, i decided to go with the penrite hrp 30 which is 20w-60 and Whoa!! this thing is running smooth as! definetly be going back to the penrite product with these results! The thicker oil should be better for it with the kms it has. Also got a valvoline oil filter for it and damn...... those oil filters are a nightmare to get to in the ed's!

Anyways, thanks for all replies,
Cheers
Rob :beer:
 
#8 ·
Rob said:

Anyway, i decided to go with the penrite hrp 30 which is 20w-60 and Whoa!! this thing is running smooth as!
That's what I have found with Penrite oils, they make an engine sound like they should do.

I normally use Castrol GTX Gas 15W-40 in winter, and Penrite HPR Gas in summer. Every time I change out the Castrol, I can notice how much smoother the engine runs on Penrite, so I'm gonna use it all year round now.

Keep your eye on that Valvolene filter, not the best of the bunch. :wnc:

cheers
 
#10 ·
Pennzoil GT Performance Racing or Valvoline VR1 Racing 10W40 are pretty good.
 
#13 ·
1. Sorry for that I've missed that point.

2. For the lifter, u'll get less noise for sometime but u are only masking up the problem. with thicker oil and less flowing abilities, it's likely to oxidze more and create more sludge during its life in the engine. And this is those sludge that block those tiny oil passages in the lifter which causes the lifters to become sticky. An engine oil flush should help.
 
#15 ·
docomo said:
1. Sorry for that I've missed that point.

2. For the lifter, u'll get less noise for sometime but u are only masking up the problem. with thicker oil and less flowing abilities, it's likely to oxidze more and create more sludge during its life in the engine. And this is those sludge that block those tiny oil passages in the lifter which causes the lifters to become sticky. An engine oil flush should help.
yes exactly, he is trying to "mask" the lifter noise, i think he did a flush recently, but wouldnt a 10W-50 oil "mask" lifter noise better than a 10W-40 at optimal operating temps?

Cause the car doesnt do it during warmup, just when the engine is warm, so im guessing the oil is thinning out too much when hot?

The noise is not loud but when the car goes to about 1500rpm the noise goes away.

Could it be an oil pressure related problem tho?

sorry for stealing this thread ill be quick :)
 
#16 ·
whats the big diff between HPR15 and HPR30 ? Im currently running HPR 30 and saw that HPR15 is 15-60w compared to 20-60W - whats that difference mean in english?
 
#20 ·
during sumer its best to have a thicker oil so pressure dosent get to low.....yes?
 
#21 · (Edited)
Although they have the same viscosity rating when hot, they do perform differently. Here are some specification from Penrite :

HPR15

Viscosity, Kinematic, cSt
at 40'C : 189
at 100'C : 25.5

Cold Cranking Viscosity, cP at -20'C : 6650

High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity, cP at 150'C : 6.6

NOACK Volatility, mass % : 9.5



HPR30

Viscosity, Kinematic, cSt
at 40'C : 206
at 100'C : 24.4

Cold Cranking Viscosity, cP at -15'C : 7600

High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity, cP at 150'C : 6.4

NOACK Volatility, mass % : 6.3


HPR15 looks better than HPR30 in terms of kinematic viscosity, thinner than HPR30 in cold and thicker than HPR30 when heated up. The cold cranking viscosity is also noticably lower when compared to HPR30. However, it should be noted that HPR15 is much more volatile and has a significantly higher evaporation rate than HPR30, which is shown in the NOACK volatility. Reason for this is that some of the viscosity index (VI) modifier actually volatilizes at high temps.

A wide range oil tend to be less stable over time and have higher evaporation rates. When you start out with a low molecular basestock and add a significant percentage of VI modifier, this is what tends to happen. VI modifiers are less reliable and more prone to "disappear" after a period of time compare to base stock due to oxdiation as well as break down by shearing action in the engine. Most of the viscosity improvers and pour point agents were not exactly stable. So in a nutshell it was a nasty cycle. When the oil gets hot the pour point agents (solvents) evaporate off - so the oil thickens with age - then when you need those thining agents (cold weather) the oil is even thicker so more wear.It doesn't sound very good for HPR15 in the long run, especially when considering it contains 10-30% VI improver.
 
#22 ·
cArSiK said:
during sumer its best to have a thicker oil so pressure dosent get to low.....yes?
I don't think climate has much to do with the operating temps of engines. That's assuming the cooling system is working normally. Once an engine warms up to it's normal temp, even 30-40 degrees of ambient temperature isn't going to increase the combustion temps that much, if any.

Also, if the thermostat still controls the engine coolant at around 90 degrees, and an oil cooler keeps the oil temps below 90 degrees, an engine should run the same in 40 degree weather as 0 degree weather, granted all cooling systems have to be working normally.

Your engine will actually run hotter with heavier oils, oil pressure would also be through the roof, and the oil pressure relief valve would be "shunting" some of the oil pump output back to the pan all of the time.
 
#23 ·
docomo said:
HPR15 looks better than HPR30 in terms of kinematic viscosity, thinner than HPR30 in cold and thicker than HPR30 when heated up. The cold cranking viscosity is also noticably lower when compared to HPR30. However, it should be noted that HPR15 is much more volatile and has a significantly higher evaporation rate than HPR30, which is shown in the NOACK volatility. Reason for this is that some of the viscosity index (VI) modifier actually volatilizes at high temps.

A wide range oil tend to be less stable over time and have higher evaporation rates. When you start out with a low molecular basestock and add a significant percentage of VI modifier, this is what tends to happen. VI modifiers are less reliable and more prone to "disappear" after a period of time compare to base stock due to oxdiation as well as break down by shearing action in the engine. Most of the viscosity improvers and pour point agents were not exactly stable. So in a nutshell it was a nasty cycle. When the oil gets hot the pour point agents (solvents) evaporate off - so the oil thickens with age - then when you need those thining agents (cold weather) the oil is even thicker so more wear.It doesn't sound very good for HPR15 in the long run, especially when considering it contains 10-30% VI improver.


rightttttttttttt.... :AAHHH: thatnks for that docomo!! So basically you think its best to stick to HPR30 in my ED with 165k?

cheers
james
 
#24 ·
My point is, comparing HPR30 to HPR15, HPR15 is not as good as HPR30 during a relatively long drain interval. Even though you'll get better protection compared to HPR30 if the HPR15 is changed frequently, but won't be as good as HPR30 when considering that fact that you may leave it in your engine for a longer period of time.
 
#25 ·
I used to drive for a taxi operator that did a long term oil test. We had 4 taxis all around the same mileage and used different oils in each. Every Monday night a sample was taken from each cab and sent for analysis. (aprox 3-4000km per week.) The analysis showed that as long as the right grade oil was used (SG, SJ, SL etc.) there was no difference in wear up to 5000km. After 5000km the Penrite was the first to show signs of accelerated wear significantly earlier than the others. Most of the oils showed no increase in wear up to around 7000km with the Mobil one showing no increase in wear above 10,000km. The Penrite turned out to be a major disappointment when compared to even much cheaper oils. Up to then I had always used Penrite in my cars. Never again!
 
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