P*ss Poor performance on hot days!!! - Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars

the_scotsman · 12-11-2003, 01:36

Hey all

My 94 EF Fairmont Ghia looses SO much power on hot days, it is very sluggish. It also turns for ages before starting too, for about 5 seconds, when usually it starts first turn.
Part of the poor performance can be put down to an almost shot 4 spd tranny. I had it serviced a about a month ago, the guy said the friction pads are worn down (I think thats what they are called) A lot of the friction materrial was in the filter. I have noticed the tranny playing up a bit recently, even jumping into limp home mode for a few minutes on 2 occasions! I dont have 2 grand, so I am trying to take it easy on the tranny for the time being. When it does go, I think a manual conversion is on the cards!

Yea, so why does the car lose so much power on hot days, i assume its fuel related, as it might suddenly get a burst of power then die down again.
Anyone able to help!??

Thanks!

XR8 Lamah · 12-11-2003, 01:39

Largely its the air density. Cold days you get denser air, therefore more air in (kind of like a turbo), and more power (the computer should add fuel appropriately). Hot days are the reverse.
I wouldn't have expected it to alter your starting much though . . .

the_scotsman · 12-11-2003, 01:49

Yea, I know what you are saying, but it is more than that.
There is a dramatic loss in power, but its not constant, almost as though, the fuel flow is irregular or something, it sort of comes and goes.
Its so very annoying, and embarassing when the car struggles to start!

Cheers

daza_mate · 12-11-2003, 01:57

their could be an air pocket in your fuel line and it expands when it gets hot cutting off the fuel supply

XR8 Lamah · 12-11-2003, 22:47

Ah, sorry, misunderstood your question. . . .
Not really sure what might cause it tho... :(

The only vague idea I have, is during the next hot day (when experiencing the probs), check the ECU for any codes it might be throwing (although it *should* keep them in memory anyways).

HOTDBZ · 12-11-2003, 23:11

Talk about pooor performance....I was spewing ever since I got me beast back from the workshop. Had work started on it in July and only got it back in end November where the weather has started getting hot...hot weather's no good for a turbocharged car, even with a huge assed front mount intercooler. I can feel the difference just by driving the beast for the past 2 days (cooler weather)....can't wait for Winter to come.

Strangely, it doesn't seem to affect the starting for me.

Rollin · 12-11-2003, 23:57

dazza might have it a little correct with his above post, though there wont be an air pocket as such (the return line makes sure the fuel rail is always purged of air) you might be getting fuel vaporisation, where the fuel in the fuel rail gets so hot that it vaporises, and when you first turn the key there is no fuel pressure because the fuel pump does not have enough time to compress all the vapour back into fuel between when you turn the key on and when it gets to the start position.

try turning the key 'on' for 3 secs, then off, then try to start it, see if that works.

a new fuel pressure reg might fix the problem, if the above suggestion works.

as for the crap performance on hot days - i dont know, though if your fuel is very hot it wont make as much power, because 1cc of fuel at 20C contains more energy than 1cc of fuel at 90C. there isnt much you can do about this problem though...

ebxr8240 · 12-12-2003, 00:52

Is it runing rich ? If so then when cold its o/k?? But when its hot obvously it doesn't need so much fuel.. So it sounds like its rich!! Check air temp senser, inlet leaks & map, filter...
..
Second it could be too far advanced...Getting away with it when cold, but when high ambient temps come along you may be geting alittle pre-ignition...Ping..On a hot day stop on the side of the road in town where speed limit is around 60 - 80 klrs on a long hill grade and listen to 1 in 5 ping in hot weather etc....You often cannot hear it inside car...

the_scotsman · 12-18-2003, 19:23

Hmmm...my mistake...sort of...

I loose the power when the aircon is on, not due to the heat. I know it is normal to lose a bit of power, but i lose at leats 1/3 of my power, its absolute shithouse!
Idle is terribel too. I hear a click under the bonnet every few seconds, and the revs rise, then pull down on the next click, then rise on the next click...the aircon feels fine, always cold but. If I am in Drive, it will almost stall when the revs fall!
I did a faut diagnostic thing, and got a number that doesnt appear ANYWHERE in any reference book or on this website...cant remember the number, will do it again tomorrow and post back.

Thanks!

David

Dellboy999 · 12-18-2003, 19:35

Codes, Hope they Help, Jason

Code Test Condition* Probable Cause
111 O,C,R Pass
112 O,R Intake Air Temperature sensor circuit indicates circuit grounded/above 245 degrees F
113 O,R Intake Air Temperature sensor circuit indicates open circuit/below -40 degrees F
114 O,R Intake Air Temperature sensor out of self-test range
116 O,R Coolant Temperature sensor out of self-test range
117 O,C Coolant Temperature circuit below minimum voltage/indicates above 245 degrees F
118 O,C Coolant Temperature sensor circuit above maximum voltage/ indicates below -40 degrees
121 O,C,R Throttle Position sensor out of self-test range
122 O,C Throttle Position sensor below minimum voltage
123 O,C Throttle Position sensor above maximum voltage
124 C Throttle Position Sensor voltage higher than expected
125 C Throttle Position Sensor voltage lower than expected
136 R Heated oxygen sensor indicates lean condition, left side
137 R Heated oxygen sensor indicates rich condition, left side
139 C No heated oxygen sensor switching detected, left side
141 C Fuel system indicates lean
144 C No heated oxygen sensor switching detected, right side
157 R,C Mass Air Flow Sensor below minimum voltage
158 O,R,C Mass Air Flow Sensor above maximum voltage
159 O,R Mass Air Flow Sensor out of self-test range
167 R Insufficient Throttle Position Sensor change during Dynamic Response Check
171 C Heated oxygen sensor unable to switch, right side
172 R,C Heated oxygen sensor indicates lean condition, right side
173 R,C Heated oxygen sensor indicates rich condition, right side
174 C Heated oxygen sensor switching slow, right side
175 C Heated oxygen sensor unable to switch, left side
176 C Heated oxygen sensor indicates lean condition, left side
177 C Heated oxygen sensor indicates rich condition, left side
178 C Heated oxygen sensor switching slow, left side
179 C Adaptive Fuel lean limit reached at part throttle, system rich, right side
181 C Adaptive Fuel rich limit reached at part throttle, right side
184 C Mass Air Flow higher than expected
185 C Mass Air Flow lower than expected
186 C Injector Pulse-width higher than expected
187 C Injector Pulse-width lower than expected
188 C Adaptive Fuel lean limit reached, left side
189 C Adaptive Fuel rich limit reached, left side
191 C Adaptive Fuel lean limit reached at idle, left side
192 C Adaptive Fuel rich limit reached at idle, left side
193 O Flexible Fuel (FF) sensor circuit failure
211 C Profile Ignition Pick-up circuit fault
212 C Ignition module circuit failure/SPOUT circuit grounded
213 R SPOUT circuit open
214 C Cylinder identification (CID) circuit failure
215 C PCM detected coil 1 primary circuit failure
216 C PCM detected coil 2 primary circuit failure
217 C PCM detected coil 3 primary circuit failure
218 C Loss of ignition diagnostic monitor (IDM) signal - left side
219 C Spark timing defaulted to 10 degrees SPOUT circuit open
221 C Spark timing error
222 C Loss of ignition diagnostic monitor (IDM) signal - right side
223 C Loss of dual plug Inhibit (DPI) control
224 C PCM detected coil 1,2,3 or 4 primary circuit failure
225 C Knock sensor not detected during dynamic response test KOER
226 O Ignition Diagnostic Module (IDM) signal not received
232 C PCM detected coil 1,2,3 or 4 primary circuit failure
238 C PCM detected coil 4 primary circuit failure
241 C ICM to PCM - IDM pulse width transmission error
244 R CID circuit fault present when cylinder balance test requested
311 R AIR system inoperative during KOER (Bank number 1 with dual heated oxygen sensors)
312 R AIR misdirected during KOER
313 R AIR not bypassed during KOER
314 R AIR system inoperative during KOER (Bank number 2 with dual heated oxygen sensors)
326 C,R EGR (PFE/DPFE) circuit voltage lower than expected
327 O,C,R EGR (EGRP/EVP/PFE/DPFE) circuit below minimum voltage
328 O,C,R EGR valve position sensor voltage below closed limit
332 C,R Insufficient EGR valve opening detected
334 O,C,R EGR valve position sensor voltage above closed limit
335 O EGR Sensor voltage out-of-range
336 R EGR (PFE/DPFE) circuit higher than expected
337 O,C,R EGR (EGRP/EVP/PFE/DPFE) circuit above maximum voltage
338 R ECT lower than expected
339 R ECT higher than expected
341 O Octane adjust service pin open
381 C Frequent air conditioning clutch cycling
411 R Unable to control RPM during Low RPM Self-test
412 R Unable to control RPM during High RPM Self-test
415 R Idle Air Control (IAC) system at maximum adaptive lower limit
416 C Idle Air Control (IAC) system at upper adaptive learning limit
452 C No input from Vehicle Speed Sensor
453 R Servo leaking down (KOER IVSC test)
454 R Servo leaking up (KOER IVSC test)
455 R Insufficient rpm increase (KOER IVSC test)
456 R Insufficient rpm decrease (KOER IVSC test)
457 O Speed control command switch(s) circuit not functioning (KOEO IVSC test)
458 O Speed control command switch(s) stuck/circuit grounded (KOEO IVSC test)
459 O Speed control ground circuit open (KOEO IVSC test)
511 O Read Only Memory test failed - replace PCM
512 C Keep Alive Memory test failed
513 O Internal voltage failure in PCM
519 O Power steering pressure switch (PSP) circuit open
521 R Power steering pressure switch (PSP) circuit did not change states
522 O Transmission Range (TR) sensor circuit open/vehicle in gear
525 O Indicates vehicle in gear, air conditioning on
527 O Transmission Range (TR) sensor circuit open, air conditioning on during KOEO
528 O Clutch pedal position (CPP) switch failure
529 C Data Communication Link (DCL) or PCM circuit failure
532 C Cluster Control Assembly (CCA) circuit failure
533 C Data Communications Link (DCL) or Electronic Instrument Cluster (EIC) circuit failure
536 C,R Brake ON/Off (BOO) circuit failure/not activated during the KOER
538 R Insufficient change in RPM/operator error in Dynamic Response Check
539 O Air conditioning on during Self-test
542 O,C Fuel Pump circuit open; PCM to motor
543 O,C Fuel Pump circuit open; Battery to PCM
551 O Idle Air Control (IAC) circuit failure KOEO
552 O Secondary Air Injection Bypass (AIRB) circuit failure (KOEO)
553 O Secondary Air Injection Diverter (AIRB) circuit failure (KOEO)
554 O Fuel Pressure Regulator Control (FPRC) circuit failure
556 O,C Primary Fuel Pump circuit failure
557 O,C Low speed fuel pump primary circuit failure
558 O EGR Vacuum Regulator circuit failure
559 O Air Conditioning On (ACON) relay circuit failure
563 O, High fan control (HFC) circuit failure
564 O Fan control (FC) circuit failure
565 O Canister Purge circuit failure
567 O Speed Control Vent (SCVNT) circuit failure (KOEO IVSC test)
568 O Speed Control Vacuum (SCVAC) circuit failure (KOEO IVSC test)
569 O Auxiliary Canister Purge (CANP2) circuit failure KOEO
571 O EGRA solenoid circuit failure KOEO
572 O EGRV solenoid circuit failure KOEO
578 C Air conditioning pressure sensor circuit shorted
579 C Insufficient air conditioning pressure change
581 C Power to Fan circuit over current
582 O Fan circuit open
583 C Power to Fuel pump over current
584 C VCRM Power ground circuit open (VCRM Pin 1)
585 C Power to air conditioning clutch over current
586 C Air conditioning clutch circuit open
587 O,C Variable Control Relay Module (VCRM) communication failure
617 C 1-2 shift error
618 C 2-3 shift error
619 C 3-4 shift error
621 O,C Shift Solenoid 1 (SS 1) circuit failure KOEO
622 O Shift Solenoid 2 (SS2) circuit failure KOEO
623 O Transmission Control Indicator Light (TCIL) circuit failure
624 O,C Electronic Pressure Control (EPC) circuit failure
625 O,C Electronic Pressure Control (EPC) driver open in PCM
626 O Coast Clutch Solenoid (CCS) circuit failure KOEO
627 O Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) solenoid circuit failure
628 C Excessive converter clutch slippage
629 O,C Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) solenoid circuit failure
631 O Transmission Control Indicator Lamp (TCIL) circuit failure KOEO
632 R Transmission Control Switch (TCS) circuit did not change states during KOER
634 O,C,R Transmission Range (TR) sensor voltage higher or lower than expected
636 O,R Transmission Fluid Temp (TFT) higher or lower than expected
637 O,C Transmission Fluid Temp (TFT) sensor circuit above maximum voltage/ -40 degrees F indicated / circuit open
638 O,C Transmission Fluid Temp (TFTj sensor circuit below minimum voltage/290 degrees F indicated / circuit shorted
639 R,C Insufficient input from Transmission Speed Sensor (TSS)
641 O,C Shift Solenoid 3 (SS3) circuit failure
643 O,C Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) circuit failure
645 C Incorrect gear ratio obtained for first gear
646 C Incorrect gear ratio obtained for second gear
647 C Incorrect gear ratio obtained for third gear
648 C Incorrect gear ratio obtained for fourth gear
649 C Electronic Pressure Control (EPC) higher or lower than expected
651 C Electronic Pressure Control (EPC)circuit failure
652 O Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) solenoid circuit failure
653 R Transmission Control Switch (TCS) did not change states during KOER
654 O Transmission Range (TR) sensor not indicating PARK during KOEQ
656 C Torque Converter Clutch continuous slip error
657 C Transmission over temperature condition occurred
659 C High vehicle speed in park indicated
667 C Transmission Range sensor circuit voltage below minimum voltage
668 C Transmission Range circuit voltage above maximum voltage
675 C Transmission Range sensor circuit voltage out of range
998 O Hard fault present

O Key ON, Engine OFF
C Continuous Memory
R Engine Running