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RWKW for my EL Wagon

3K views 18 replies 10 participants last post by  dcstraight 
#1 ·
Hi again all,

Firstly, sorry for all these recent threads - but you guys are the best resource for my queries ! OK, power at the fly on my EL is supposed to be 157, so I'm guessing a 30% drivetrain loss (is that accurate??) which would bring it down to ~110 RWKW (when new obviously!). My first question is : Being a wagon with the longer wheel-base, would there be more drivetrain loss than that of an EL sedan ? Secondly, it's running on LPG, so I'm guessing I'd lose more power again from a factory setup ?

OK, now this is where I get confused and annoyed (I'll try to stay composed!). I have upgraded the exhaust manifold to pacemaker extractors with stainless steel piping, including a hi-flow cat. Sorry should have specified, I have an inline 6. OK, so I'm presuming that she should breathe a bit better and not only should I be getting more performance, but slightly better economy too.

I recently upgraded my LPG system to the Gas Research throttle body and fuel converter, which they *guarantee* at least 10% more power. OK, bearing this in mind I was thinking that I'd be looking at around 120rwkw. Anyway, cutting to the chase I was suprised to see that my car had a dyno power run, producing only 107.6 rwks !! According to GRA, a stock EL produces 95 rwkw - but if that were to be true, then that would mean that there is ~40% drivetrain loss (difference between 157 @ the fly and 95 at the treads!) ??? I don't know about that !! Can anyone help me here - I just want to know if there's something wrong with my baby !! Oh and I'm also getting $hite economy still (grrrr - as that was the main reason to do the ~$1500 upgrade!) 250 kms per tank of LPG.

Sorry for the long post (and rant), but it just seems that it's a hefty upgrade for not that much difference!!

Thanks for hearing me out lads n lasses!
Steve
 
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#2 ·
First thing, I would mainly be using a dyno to compare the changes different mods make after originally doing a base dyno run.

Going from one dyno to the other you are gonna get different readings.... if you go to the dyno down the street you never know you might get those extra kws you are missing as they all read differently.

Also, little off topic but just interested in how much your gas research throttle body and converter cost?? I am pretty interested in doing this myself. PM me if you want to keep the thread on topic.

Cheers...
 
#3 ·
Just FYI

With a Falcon running on LPG instead of petrol, before any modifications are done, you've got a lot less power.

For example:

2002 Falcon Forte Sedan (petrol)
Power: 157kw @ 4900rpm
Torque: 357Nm @ 3000rpm

2002 Falcon Forte Sedan (LPG)
Power: 143kw @ 4500rpm
Torque: 362Nm @ 2750rpm


So there's your difference and obviously your lack of rwkw when comparing to a petrol based Falcon.


Cheers,
Matt
 
#7 ·
Hmmm, thanks for the info regarding power - I guess I'm expecting a bit much - especially from an LPG setup =\ Anyway, I guess my other concern is with economy - is it possible that I'm losing economy through having a troublesome gearbox / drivetrain ? I honestly have no idea anymore, as I thought that the LPG fuel converter and throttle body would have fixed all these problems :-(

Any info appreciated !

Thanks,
Steve
 
#8 ·
Why dont you go and test drive another EL wagon, and see if its quicker or slower. Maybe even get a mate to drive the other one and have a drag?
 
#10 ·
dcstraight,

My EF wagon makes 136kw at the wheels. So i can vouch wagons don't anything to the sedan sisters. :s6: :s6: :s6:

With your car on gas engine at the fly is somewhere around 135-140kw i'm guesing. As the dedicated LPG from tickford only makes 142kw at the fly.

Putting that at the wheels your wagon is pretty much spot on.
 
#11 ·
Wow!! 136 at the treads - what extra berries do you have under your bonnet there ?? ;-) I know yours is manual and you lose less power through the drivetrain, but methinks you've done some head / cam work perhaps ?? I'm intrigued to know !! :)

Cheers,
Steve
 
#12 ·
Yeah it seems it's one of the better 6 packs out of the factory. Mod wise theres nothing tricky, just a cat back exhaust 2 1/2inch mandrel bent, K&N filter + Intake scoop.
 
#13 ·
and as we all know, no 2 dyno's are the same, and you will never replicate the same dyno figure ever again. you will come close to it, but never the same.

not shaming EF_guy here or anything, but if he dyno'd it again, he might not get that kind of figure again. Dont use a dyno as gods word, its what the car does on the street that matters

also, venom_xr got 156rwkw ??? that same day, and hes only got induction, and herrod exhaust fitted. going from stock 164kw and a drive train loss of approx 30%, venomXR's car should be putting out around 205kw at the flywheel or more. Now thats a lot for no more than induction and exhaust...

dont trust a dyno, trust what happens on the street
 
#16 ·
Hi again Lads,

EF_Falcon_guy - Yeah, I'm just amazed that you're getting so much power from your setup - Are you sure there's been no sneaky head / cam work ;-)

South : Yeah fair enough that dynos are all relatively *different*, but the difference in 30 RWKW - that's a lot of power !!

AusXH : You'll have to excuse my ignorance, but what does Venom have ? I'm guessing a worked Il6 ??

Cheers,
Steve
 
#17 ·
Hi again Lads,

EF_Falcon_guy - Yeah, I'm just amazed that you're getting so much power from your setup - Are you sure there's been no sneaky head / cam work ;-)

South : Yeah fair enough that dynos are all relatively *different*, but the difference in 30 RWKW - that's a lot of power !!

AusXH : You'll have to excuse my ignorance, but what does Venom have ? I'm guessing a worked Il6 ??

Cheers,
Steve
 
#19 ·
au2 : Yeah I saw his site today - damn these people with Il6's who have more n/a power than me !!! ;-) hehe. Looks like I need to get some head / cam work dag-nam-it !! I just can't believe I've done stainless exhaust, hi-flow cat, extractors - new gas research throttle body with tickford intake manifold. Maybe she's only running on 5 cylinders - hehe *I doe no!* OK, I'm done being cranky. Maybe I should get my injectors cleaned, after all I do use her quite a lot on LPG than petrol - hmmm...

Cheers,
Steve
 
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