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Old 01-23-2004, 03:28   #1 (permalink)
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Help on turbo project (long)

ok as the heading say i need guidance on my turbo endeavours in the future... i will fill yas in

i have a ed xr6 i want to modify... i wanna do a backyard turbo project with the upcoming money i will receive from selling my motorbike (6k+), i want my project to be nethin around 180rwkw... at probably no more than 12lb. im not planning on doin nethin to the internals of my engine... ill run it till she quits then hopefully rebuild it... (EF crank, mild cam, lower compression, headwork, acl pistons etc...) i plan to do all this next year when i am completing my apprenticeship while i stay at home

now i dnt know heaps on this subject but i learn quickly!
my first dilemma is whether to go twin or single... i know twins will give me good boost off the bottom and the like, but i dnt kno wether i should due to the hassles of 2 times evrythin and the extra costs?

second of all is the used turbo...
i dnt want nethin huge if i go single, but i want some suggestions as to what kind of turbo i should look for or if i were to go twins what type as well? what sort of things should i look out for in a used turbo?

Fuel system/computers?
what upgrades to the fuel system do yas recommend...? i kno i will need bigger injectors.. 30lbs??? what else like fuel pumps etc? and will the ford comp handle it? ive been suggested a wolf 3d to replace it.

Intercooler...
now firstly i dont want to change the looks of my car at all... i am will to modify my front end to make a cooler fit but im not cutting and hacking the external part of the bumper bar!!! i want to keep the nice clean look! now whats a good used cooler?... GTR is apparently good but is expensive and prob wont fit??? any suggestions????

Thanks in advance anyway for reading... i have many more questions but this will do for now!!! cheers, shannon
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Old 01-23-2004, 04:43   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Help on turbo project (long)

just a quick point. A single setup will cost less in the long run, even for a basic setup. Twin T3's/VG30's will cost say $950 added to this the extra plumbing/exhaust costs. Where as for $800ish (WINK )you can get a 2nd hand single turbo that will way outflow a cheap twin setup,(only thing is most large singles will require an external Wastegate) and will allow for a more simple manafold/oiling/intercooling design.
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Old 01-23-2004, 05:00   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Help on turbo project (long)

yeh thats what i thought... i would be interested in your turbo if i could sell my bike soon...we'll c
then hopefully get gm destroyer to make me a manifold?
we'll c
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Old 01-23-2004, 05:58   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Help on turbo project (long)

If your only after 180rwkw's then shouldn't need to go anywhere near 12psi, 7 or 8 should be enough if well intercooled. i would be thinking of a single turbo setup, due to costs. the extra money saved would be better off going towards a better ball bearing turbo, so that it spools up quicker. But the one thing you always have to keep in mind is, once you've tasted 180rwkw's you'll want more, so upgradeability is something that you should keep in mind.

You could use a turbo with a built in wastegate to get that power, its just a matter of getting the right one, you go to small and then you won't be able to get more power later if you want, you go to big you'll have more lag.
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Old 01-23-2004, 06:22   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Help on turbo project (long)

its all a balancing act isnt it!!! i betta go to bed now but dont worry!!! ive got a few more qn's for yas tommoro.... lol, cheers
shan
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Old 01-23-2004, 13:23   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Help on turbo project (long)

Intercooler-wise, I would look for a Mitsubishi EVO one, or one about that size. Should be an *easy* fit.
A reasonable compromise turbo would be the larger turbo of a supra 2JZ motor, that'd be almost spot on for your application with *some* room to move.
The Wolf 3D is ok for a basic set-up, but if you are planning to go a bit ballistic, then get something better like an Autronics or even Motec ( but Motec are damn expensive! )
Your fuel system ( pump and injectors ) should be ok provided you dont go to wild. In any case, the dyno tune for the computer will tell you if it is capable or not.

Have fun with it.
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Old 01-23-2004, 15:40   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Help on turbo project (long)

Ok here's some of the research I've done on the subject:

1) Go single turbo. it's far easier to work out and the benifits of twin are eaten up in it's added complexity. (You can get a brand new t04b from america for around $500Au on ebay)

2) Your standard injectors can be run at 30lbs by fitting a xr6t fuel regulator ($91.50 from Ford) The fuel pump should be able to handle this amount of increased pressure but this will reduce it's running life and a boshe unit should be fitted later.

3) Fuel system: if your car is a manual then I'd suggest getting in contact with "performance is electronic" in Wa. You can invest in a tweecer unit that allows changes to your current ECU (must be converted to a mustang computer and a MAF sensor installed) This is much more tunable than a wolf and allows all your current electical goodies to be run perfectly plus you get sequensial efi with 2 extra injector drivers if you need them.

Another option if your a bit of a wiz and don't mind getting your hands dirty check out my "backyard tweecer mod" thread for more info on a cheaper way to tune.

180rwkw should be fine on a well running stock engine but you may want it install a decompression plate so you can run boost well.
Also if you plan on rebuilding your motor once it dies I'd suggest a custom cam from surecams in QLD.
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Old 01-23-2004, 15:52   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Help on turbo project (long)

oh and for an intercooler: the series 4 single turbo rotory rx7 would be an exellent choice if you want a second hand one.
If you can weld or know someone who has access to weld get a wreaked truck cooler and cut it down to size and fit it.
Because your running lowish boost don't go crazy with the size. Keep it about 300mm high and as long as you can at the front.
Should still be able to fit this in under the standard front bar with a little bit of work.
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Old 01-23-2004, 17:13   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Help on turbo project (long)

Std injectors... [std are 19's] will only go as far as 6 Lp and rev limited to about 4000rpm or it will run heaps lean...The engine we have turbo'd is running 24's and still is basically the same too lean above 4500 @ 6 Lp...So obviously 36 to 42 Lp's is required..We only used 24's for we had them lying around...
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Old 01-23-2004, 17:26   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Help on turbo project (long)

There is no way IMO opinion you will get 180rwkw on a totally unopened motor let alone at low boost with a jap turbo. All the jap turbos need about 12psi minimum on the 3L or less motors. The 2JZ turbo is part of a sequential setup and thats too smalll also.

If you want to do it right with more potential later you WILL need to go a truck T4 or the like with external wastegate. You need a large compressor wheel to flow lots of air at LOW boost with your current setup. This requires either a H3 or 60-1 (better and will support upto 300rwkws easy) compressor, there are VLs on the street with 60-1's so there not too big. Also the larger truck turbine housing will flow your air requirements, the jap stuff is too small std for a 4.0 motor. I have heard and seen these turbos for around the $1200-1500 mark. Once you hi-flow a jap turbo it will cost the same already plus you'll probably get wastegate creep. I have seen 32mm wastegates for $200 2nd hand so this option is not much more expensive and has LOTS more potential.

I would just crush your reg in a vice, save the $91 for a bosch motorsport fuel pump. If you can't make the power with a 55-60psi base pressure then your injectors are too small. I would go 36lbs injectors minimum. Also 24lbs injectors max out at 165rwkws.

Also if the tweecer will work with the AFM in the boost pipe (ala modded VLs) then I would look at it. If not then it will become a restriction and aftermarket AFms aren't cheap. There is nothing wrong with a Wolf 3d ver4, ver 3 YES it has **** all resolution for boost I know this as a fact. The tuning support for Autronic is supposed to be bad, also the same at Motec. At the end of the day it comes down to the tuner and on the street you would be hard pressed to notice the difference between the cheap and the expensive. If you wanted 700rwhp+ and about 20psi+ then the top shelf stuff is better mainly due to their better injector control.

Also on a stock motor I would go for a custom cam to cut down your cranking psi, make more power, and improve boost response. Surecam want $220 on a regrind, wade should do it for $160 but you will need a vernier gear.

The evo intercooler is the best one that shoudl fit with no cutting. Also PWR sell a 550x300x73mm (supports 600hp @1psi drop) core for $495, so if you know an alloy welder....

I am doing very similar but chasing 210rwkws.
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