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Water/air intercoolers

4K views 24 replies 7 participants last post by  EA Turbo Clone 
#1 ·
Just after someone who can make me a descent water to air intercooler for my 4L Turbo, any recommendations?
 
#2 ·
Have you seen the new PWR bullet intercoolers that look like a hotdog muffler? From all reports, they flow exceptiobally well, and they're certainly compact enough to fit in a Falcon engine bay...
 
#4 ·
a air to water intercooler is best for the street,

where you usually are off boost, untill you stab it and water can asorb 5 times more heat then air can. you can also put in ice for really cold inlet temps at the drags.

the only issue's with water to air (w2a) is the extra weight with all the cooling gear, the extra complexity of the system as well means more can go wrong, and is generally more expensive then air to air (a2a)

when you have cool air constantly going over a a2a intercooler (ie.. race condtions) it is better then a w2a set up, as the water may be great that it asorbs more heat but it also disperses the heat far slower out of the intercooling system. So once that water has heated up it then becomes useless, the only way to solve the problem is to fit a massive heat changer and a high flow rated water pump.

in a nutshell- W2A is good for street/strip where you are using boost in short shap bursts.

A2A is best for extended periods of boost. and is cheapest.

cheers.joe.
 
#6 ·
its basicly a conventional intercooler core (albeit smaller) that is enclosed in a box.

the box has water flowing thru it which also flows thru the cooler core, assorbing the heat of the inlet charge.

the water is pumped out of the box to a frount mounted radiator (some use a/c condensors others use 4 banger radiators) and pumped back into the box as a cool liquid which then starts the process all over.

cheers.joe.
 
#7 ·
joe - don't underestimate what an air/air system can achieve in a road car. My Garrett bar and plate air/air actually lowers intake temps (measured at the intake manifold) when I get into boost.

As you'll see in the photo linked, my intake temps are stable at about 40 degrees C. When I get on the throttle, rather than the intercooler just keeping temps just a bit above 40, or even remaining at 40, the temps actually drop to near 30 degrees while the air coming out of the blower is at 150 degrees + :AAHHH:

Where you mention that water leaves the heat exchanger and goes back to the a2w intercooler core "as a cool liquid", physics states that the water can not reach less than ambient air temp. In fact, it often doesn't get near ambient. This means that the water is slightly heated. As you stated, a2w isn't best for circuit racing. I'd prefer a2a for all applications, except for dyno comps and drag racing. The ability to fill the a2w with chilled, icy water allows temps under ambient. Cold air is dense with oxygen = more power ability with a greater resistance to detonation. After the dyno run or dragrace, dump the now-heated water and fill it with iced water for the next run....

Street or circuit racing, I'd still go with the a2a.

 
#8 ·
My reasons for running water to air are

1. I don't want a big intercooler at the front of my car

2. I don't want big piping going to and from the front of my car

3. Water to air intercoolers under a lot of circumstances are actually a lot more effiecient than air to air, on the capa BA falcon kit for example they are running water to air and have found that under full throttle excelleration they haven't had the air temp go higher than 26degrees, on a 22 degree day.

4. I have a small turbo, i want a short distance of plumbing to try and keep up flow as well as throttle response.

5. smaller size.

6. my air conditioner conderser is sitting there doing apsolutely nothing and i may as well utilise it for something.

7. Cost can be a lot cheaper than air to air, if you go about it the right way. Being what it should cost me -

Pump $160
hose $40
heat exchanger around $200, but i cant find one!
water cooler - free its already on my car.
Controller - $3 for a relay as my haltech can control it.

8. I can then run the water throu the cooler to my twin gas converters and then back through the heat exhanger getting below ambient temperatures.

Now i have nothing against using a air to air intercooler, but if i had my way i wouldn't run one at all! but i just can't get around the fact that the air entering my engine is 150C, and detonation has been known to be responsible for my last two engines being destroyed.
 
#9 ·
q777,

i dont deny the fact that a good and proper a2a set up is prolly the best set up to have (i know,,, i have a 740x400mm garrett bar and plate cooler in the front of my falc).

but i wasnt slagging or down rating either i was trying to give the pro's and cons of each set up.

and for 100 percent street driving, the W2A cooling is most effecient, as you are rarely on boost anylonger then 1-2min.

as i stated, water assorbs 5x the heat of air. so in that quick little burst the water will assorb all that heat and when you have to slow down for traffic the heat exchanger will disperse that heat till next time.

if ur a lead foot, grab a A2A.

cheers.joe.
 
#10 ·
I'd reckon for the cost and hassle esp for drag racing N2O would be a better option.Only require a 50 hp shot to cool and spool...If you don't like the i/c shown in front then install a slightly smaller one.In some cases pipes [esp] to i/c are made too big.But from i/c to t/b pipes should be same size as throttle body, no more....
Also if your compressor is too small it MAY be heating the compressed air too much.. Choking ??
 
#11 ·
gm - 740x400? That's just being greedy !!!!! :)
 
#12 ·
yeah i know it is, but it helps when i am currently trooding down the path of 1000hp.

and yes, yes i admit i am greedy.

ebxr8240..... yes n2o is great shit aint it... pity its ileagal to anything refering to nitrous in ur car in qld :(

cheers.joe.
 
#13 ·
1000hp with a 4.0L 6 cylinder ? I'll probably step on some toes, so I won't let the :bs: flag fly without further details. I'd love to see you achieve your four figure HP number, but I just can't see it happening without you committing MASSIVE R&D resources to this project....

What block are you using? How do you plan on making it handle the type of cylinder pressures that the engine would see?

What brand of crank?
Rods?
Pistons?
Cylinder head flow specs?
Fuel system?
ECU?
Intercooler? (A truck intercooler won't flow anywhere near enough for 1000hp)

How many engines can you afford to destroy on a dyno before you work out the weak links in the 6cyl Ford motor?

What sort of gearbox do you plan on using?
Diff?

I'm not taking the piss, but I can see a 1000hp 6cyl Ford project leaving you out of pocket by an easy $30,000+. If you're realistic in your pricing, then the very best of luck, and I'll be the first to buy you a beer for a job well done.

If you're planning on building a budget 1000hp, you're in for a bitter experience littered with broken engine parts.....
 
#15 ·
q777.

i am very real about this engine,

dont doubt that, i have spent 12 k so far on an engine, which is now up for sale to help fund a new engine,

i have spent 2 years researching and developing, all the gear, theres a custom turbonetics turbo sitting here in the coffee table staring at me.

i have designed an engine to run 700hp on it head all day every day, using virtualy standard bottom end, i am sure with a block thats grout filled, and stuffed full of forged goodies and a few other squirel touches i'll be able to come vey close to getting that 1000hp mark.

i am not saying i will get it. but i will try my hardest to crack that 1000hp barrier, even if it does cost me 30,000 bucks and few engines.

cheers.joe.
 
#17 ·
Joe - thanks for the reply (and for not having a hissy-fit that someone asked you some questions).

So..... if you didn't once say that the new combo was a 6, can I assume that it has a couple more cylinders than that? :)
 
#18 ·
i am not saying what engine is currently being machined up to slot into the bay of the ea.

its a very big secret, all i can say is it'll blow you away once done, shame it wont be completed till next year chrissie. :(

cheers.joe.
 
#19 ·
Twin cam ?
 
#21 ·
After doing some serious thinking and research, i am thinking that i might use two heater cores or aircon on top of each other and then weld a case around them. Looking at my brothers water/air which works really well on his supercharged 4.1 its not much bigger than a EA Heater core. and thats basically all it is inside it.

And the Vortech Power Cooler is pretty much a big heater core in the middle of a alumium case.

What do ya think? Would it be worth a try? As a vortech one is worth somewhere around $1000. And they work extremely well.
 
#22 ·
yeah mate should work well,

i was going to suggest a subaru tomp mount intercooler to enclose is a alloy box but the heater core may just be smaller, one prob tho, make sure it flows very well, otherwise you will just waste time and money, if the core is a restriction.

with the water feeds, have the water enter the box at the top, and the drain at the bottom, and make it flow thru the core evenly (even if it means making numerious water entry feeds)

good luck mate, and another susgestion, do a google search, theres sh!t loads of info on W2A set ups on scoobys, it'll give you some insight and tips to use.

cheers.joe.
 
#23 ·
Thanks, but i was planning on running the air through the air part, and putting water through the water part, if you know what i mean.

I am only wanting to drop my intake temps down to 70c or so, nothing more really, i am only putting one on to make the engine last longer. Not really worried about performance, as previously without intercooler it had enough power for what i want.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Look up technical information on heat exchangers from engineering reports/airconditioning systems etc, from this design your system to be a counter flow system, as these allow the greatest thermal dissapation of the main types of coolers, as this designs will allow for the exiting air to be at a lower temperature than that of the exiting water ;) . Im thinking of going A2W intercooling for space saving, however a big A2A cooler in the front of a 4L falcon will warn off wannabe racers.
 
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