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Old 04-29-2004, 05:56   #1 (permalink)
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Bara Engine and AWD

I am going for a test drive in an AWD Ghia tomorrow so I bought the Wheels mag to see what they had to say. I am interested in knowing why Ford thought it prudent to change the diff ratios in the AWD. Has this got something to do with the Bara engine not being up to the job ie no or low bottom end torque. I have requested a torque curve from ford and was told that one does not exist for the engine. I find that hard to believe. I also asked if a diesel variant will be availabe sometime soon or a 5/6 speed gear box and the answer was no to both. From what I have seen (Motor show/mags) the car looks good. I am just worried about the engine/gear box for the AWD. It seems a good match for the RWD but AWD?? I also have a 1800kg boat to tow. Not sure how it is going to handle that. It looks like it maybe a big fuel bill!
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Old 04-29-2004, 06:37   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Bara Engine and AWD

Hey Chris,

I can say there's next to no chance of Diesel being released in the Territory. The design of the vehicle is not of an extreme stump pulling torquey monster Diesel 4x4 like a Cruiser, it's a crossover of a number of vehicles as you'd have heard multiple times. It has real handling, looks good and stil doesn't end up using the fuel of the Cruiser. As for a torque engine curve, it's idenctical to the Barra 182 in the Falcon. I know you'd be more interested in the loss through the converter (which splits drive 62% rear and 38% front) to the wheels but that I'm not sure on that myself. Assume similar to the Falcon if not identical and if it is indeed only slightly different it'll be plenty enough to cope. Having driven the Territory all day today at the official launch you'll have no worries hauling an 1800kg boat, those Territorys realy haul arse when they get going. The bonus is you've still got Falcon pulling power but with the AWD for the boat ramps which you'd understand pretty clearly as a benefit.

As for the 5/6 speed auto rumours, if people bought cars based upon that then nobody would buy a car because they'd constantly be waiting for something better. I don't think they will seriously be even considering the 5 or 6 speed auto anytime soon, I may be wrong but they wouldn't invest this heavily in tooling etc only to go changing it all in less than 5 months time come Sydney Motor Show or thereabouts. Buy the vehicle based on what it can do, not upon what a model in 2 years might be able to do, knowing very well that if you wait 5 years obviuosly you'll get a more advanced vehicle no matter what brand you buy thanks to market progression. The Territory currently has received rave reviews, and based upon that, your own drive and evaluation tomorrow it should give you the gut feeling or strong indication as to why is works best for you right now. Resale will be fantastic on these, considering how popular they'll be.

Considering your fuel bill, the Kluger is max rated to 1500kg so that's off the towing list, the Adventra is a V8 only so bye bye to a good fuel bill there, forgetting the fact that it is totally outclassed by the Territory according to Wheels magazine and the other wagons such as the Pajero and Crusier aren't exactly the Service Station Owner's long lost cousin!!! The money you'll save on a Ghia AWD over a Cruiser Diesel in Fuel over even 5 or 6 years will still offset your purchase on top of you getting a smaller sportier vehicle that still suits 5-7 people comfortably and is easier to drive, park, handles better and looks sensational!!!

Enjoy your test-drive and let us all know how it goes!!! As a Saleperson I value having people like yourself posting here because it helps us learn what sort of things we can do our homework on to make sure we can answer all your questions and help you realise whether or not the Territory is the right vehicle for you... the more I learn about it the more it seems like the vehicle for more than just a handful of people!!

Cheers,
Matt
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Old 04-29-2004, 16:50   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Bara Engine and AWD

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the answer. To be honest, we had an order in for the Di-D 21st Anniversary Edition Pajero and cancelled it after we saw the Territory at the Melb motor show. I am a fan of the new turbo diesel engines. The new 2.7L twin turbo produced by Jaguar is one sweet puppy and would work well in the Territory. That aside, Ford cannot supply a torque curve for any of the Bara range. I am only intereseted in what the torque is @ 2000 rpm. This will give me an idea of how hard I will have to work the engine. My guess is that while towing the boat the fuel economy will be around 22-25 l/100 k with a 75 litre tank gives me 340 - 300 km range ?? A turbo diesel Pajero will give around 15 l/100 k's for the same weight. Also, would my calcualtion be correct in that @100kph the engine will be doing around 2200 rpm?

Thanks

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Old 04-29-2004, 22:18   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Bara Engine and AWD

I think you've answered your question regarding fuel consumption and the deisel engine. It seems obvious to me that the Pajero deisel is the way to go.

Athough, theres another option.

Why dont you just wait for the turbo version of territory to come out?

its just a matter of time.
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Old 04-29-2004, 22:48   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Bara Engine and AWD

Hi Chris, Id say there are 2 reasons why the awd has lower diff ratios it is a bit heavier and also more likely to be used off road. I completely agree with your assessment of the fuel usage. I would estimate the Territory would be comparable with a diesel Pajero unloaded but when working hard a petrol engine gets through a lot more fuel than a diesel. The only advantage a petrol engine has is in outright speed when you put the foot down. Depends on how often and how far you tow your boat I suppose.

Come on Ford, bring on a diesel! Ideally about 3.5-4L turbo, common-rail injection which would also be ideal to use in the larger sedans in Europe, similar to Audis V8 turbodiesel - 4L, 200kW, 650Nm, and 0-100 in 6.7sec with 9.6 L/100km combined cycle in the A8 weighing 1940kg (the engine weighs 270kg). How good would that engine be in a Falcon or Territory?
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Old 04-30-2004, 00:40   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Bara Engine and AWD

I went for a test drive (all 10 min of it) in a RWD Ghia this arvo. Having driven a few Pajero's over the last couple of months I would not say there is much difference in driving dynamics. Where the Territory leaves it for dead is value for money and space. The GLS Pajero is more expensive than the Territory Ghia (around 4K) and the Exceed is at least 13K more. I would agree with outback_ute that the lower ratio diff is there because of the chance of some medium 4WDing. I guess it is a bit of a compromise. One thing I do hate about the Pajero is the level of noise from the 3.2 diesel. The Territory is a very quiet car to drive. If only Ford had a (quiet) diesel variant then it would be a no brainer.
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Old 04-30-2004, 00:45   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Bara Engine and AWD

Also the Higher diff ratio would compensate for the bigger tyres too which effectivly make the gearing taller.

IMO a good 3-4L Turbo diesel would go great in both Falcon and territory, the amount of torque these things have is incredable as well as having great econonmy and Diesels arent the rattly old things they used to be with some being as refined as petrol engines.
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Old 04-30-2004, 02:39   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Bara Engine and AWD

There's only a slight difference in the tyre size I think, both types are nominally 235/60/17. Been wrong before though.
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Old 04-30-2004, 23:44   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Bara Engine and AWD

The only reason the AWD has a lower diff ratio than the RWD version is to compensate for the extra weight of the AWD system. Seems to have done the job too because the AWD version runs basically the same time to 100 as the RWD version although it has all the extra weight according to Wheels magazine.
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Old 04-30-2004, 23:54   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Bara Engine and AWD

Sorry i misunderstood what you were talking. What i was talking about was the difference of diff ratio between the BA Falcon and the Territory.
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