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But what sort of mileage & servicing did those vehicles have?
Nothing lasts forever, and those parts you mention do fail. But the average failure rate is 120,000km or six years.
hmmm. I expect water pumps to fail. That's pretty normal. But powersteering pumps made for Aussie manufacturers don't seem to be up to scratch - and they're more expensive.
The Holden powersteering pump saga has been going on for ages and only recently seems to have been corrected. Got a quote for my leaking PS pump and Rack on my Magna (second car) and I'm up for $1000. That leaks been there since around 140,000 and the cars not worth spending that sort of cash on. I think it's about time that the component manufacturers do a bit more to ensure their products last or are serviceable.
Bringing the topic a bit more on-track, my Terri's in for servicing this morning with broken plastic bits in the front doors. They don't look all that crash hot to start with. I think the manufacturer's moulding processes aren't good enough.
And a bit more on-topic.. while my Terri's being serviced I've borrowed an XR6T from the salesperson. Nice car when singing but very ordinary compared to the Terri in traffic conditions. NVH a long way behind Territory - there are noises coming from everywhere (tyre rumble, poor door seals, drive-train noises) and this car's only 23k old. Not particularly impressed with the $5 stereo either. Lucky I've got a TS with the premium ICC.
I think that what's happening in the Ford dealerships is that the customers try out a Barra then a Terri and say "wow - The Terri is a better car than the Falcon. I'll take the Terri". The Falcon sales won't go up until they make some serious improvements. I think that the next BA is going to have to include all the BA->Terri improvements plus some NVH and build quality improvements to take on the new Camry/new Avalon/new Galant/VE Commodore. It's going to be a tough market in 2006.
As a long term satisfied Holden owner. I have always been skeptical about the quality of Fords. Often been tempted over the years to move to the dark side but a new model Commodore and my bias against Ford was always enough to keep me with Holden.
Loved the Territory when I saw it but was very equivocal about the Ford quality - particularly on a brand new type of vehicle. Nonetheless, the Terri conveted me that my next vehicle would be an AWD wagon. Aventura a joke, Outback too small, Kluger and Prado seriously considered but just didn't do it for me. So with some nervousness aI took the plunge on Territory. After 4 months of ownership I am delighted with Ford. The quality on mine is easily as good as what I was used to with Holden. Build quality probably not yet up to Toyota's standard but its a much nicer vehicle than any comparable Toyota. The interior has a genuine "quality feel" about it whereas the Toyotas felt cheap and nasty.
Quality's not just about reliability and build quality. My work colleague with an an XC90 had a similar anti Ford bias but even he now agrees that he wasted $30,000 on the Volvo when my fully optioned Ghia is probably a better all round vehicle.
[quote=Paulv]hmmm. I expect water pumps to fail. That's pretty normal. But powersteering pumps made for Aussie manufacturers don't seem to be up to scratch - and they're more expensive.
The Holden powersteering pump saga has been going on for ages and only recently seems to have been corrected. Got a quote for my leaking PS pump and Rack on my Magna (second car) and I'm up for $1000. That leaks been there since around 140,000 and the cars not worth spending that sort of cash on. I think it's about time that the component manufacturers do a bit more to ensure their products last or are serviceable.
................QUOTE]
It is true that the Japanese & European vehicles don’t have as much problem with P/S pumps & racks, but then, how many Aussie vehicles are on the road compared to the imports?
The price of a similar Asian or European part would probably give you a heart attack.
As for “the cars not worth spending that sort of cash on”, how much would it cost to replace the vehicle?
What about the safety of you, your passengers and other users of the road you travel on, are they worth a $1000.00?
Sorry for being so blunt, but I believe in being considerate to others. You may think it is just a leak, but that oil is part of your steering assistance, you could loose that assistance in an emergency situation or during a turn, or the oil slick could cause another driver to loose traction.
Where does the oil leak end up?
On the ground and in the storm water system, eventually entering our ground water and oceans. This affects the whole ecosystem.
If the car is not worth spending money on, then wreck it and buy something that is safe for you, the public & the environment.
That is my 2 cents worth, hope you fix the problem soon.
As for “the cars not worth spending that sort of cash on”, how much would it cost to replace the vehicle?
What about the safety of you, your passengers and other users of the road you travel on, are they worth a $1000.00?
Sorry for being so blunt, but I believe in being considerate to others. You may think it is just a leak, but that oil is part of your steering assistance, you could loose that assistance in an emergency situation or during a turn, or the oil slick could cause another driver to loose traction.
Where does the oil leak end up?
On the ground and in the storm water system, eventually entering our ground water and oceans. This affects the whole ecosystem.
If the car is not worth spending money on, then wreck it and buy something that is safe for you, the public & the environment.
That is my 2 cents worth, hope you fix the problem soon.
Hey Johnydep - you sure like flaming
The car's worth $5000. The fix is one of a number of fixes required for $1000. The leak is not causing a failure in steering ability. The leak is not substantial enough to slick the road or stuff the storm water system. The car is quite safe - I'd still rate it safer than >70% of the cars on the road. The only reason I haven't scrapped is that it's still a better car than most second-hand cars <$10,000 and I know all it's faults - I know what could fail (better the devil you know). To replace with another car would set me back around $20,000+, which I don't have right now. As a second car (not doing any long-distance trips or family trips) it's a perfectly acceptable car.
I get the feeling that you like a very bureaucratic environment as all your responses seem to focus around - only ever doing what you're told, companies and government know more than you, we shouldn't be allowed to make our own choices in life. Lighten up Johnydep
I believe that I am technical enough to recognise the cost/risk analysis of performing specific maintenance tasks on my cars and this time around the priority was a dodgy CV, rear brakes, wheel balance issues and exhaust fixes.
I also believe in being considerate to others but may have different priorities - ie having the best brake pads at a reasonable cost, having the best decent priced tyres, having brakes that are consistent and work, having working lights, predictable and reliable suspension, and working steering. My steering works but I need to top it up occasionally. It doesn't completely fail like in the Holdens.
Johnydep,
Just for your info none of the Holdens I had were out of warranty all were serviced at their 10,000km interval by Holden.
The VX left me stranded in Gooniwindi. Most driving I do is on the open road with little city driving. The Territory replaced the VX as I needed something with more ground clearance as I service remote radio sites.
If I need a 4WD I take the Pajero to the more interesting sites.
Maybe it is just me but I expect to have troublefree vehicles while they are still in their warranty. The Japanese vehicles I own have been and I hope I can have a better run from the Territory. There will be no more Holdens in my driveway for a considerable time I can assure you.
The car's worth $5000. The fix is one of a number of fixes required for $1000. The leak is not causing a failure in steering ability. The leak is not substantial enough to slick the road or stuff the storm water system. The car is quite safe - I'd still rate it safer than >70% of the cars on the road. The only reason I haven't scrapped is that it's still a better car than most second-hand cars <$10,000 and I know all it's faults - I know what could fail (better the devil you know). To replace with another car would set me back around $20,000+, which I don't have right now. As a second car (not doing any long-distance trips or family trips) it's a perfectly acceptable car.
.........
Not trying to flame you, I just get tired of being stuck behind smoky bombs and hearing "the cars not worth fixing", especially when I scream out the window "fix it or scrap it".
As a long term satisfied Holden owner. I have always been skeptical about the quality of Fords. Often been tempted over the years to move to the dark side but a new model Commodore and my bias against Ford was always enough to keep me with Holden.
Loved the Territory when I saw it but was very equivocal about the Ford quality - particularly on a brand new type of vehicle. Nonetheless, the Terri conveted me that my next vehicle would be an AWD wagon. Aventura a joke, Outback too small, Kluger and Prado seriously considered but just didn't do it for me. So with some nervousness aI took the plunge on Territory. After 4 months of ownership I am delighted with Ford. The quality on mine is easily as good as what I was used to with Holden. Build quality probably not yet up to Toyota's standard but its a much nicer vehicle than any comparable Toyota. The interior has a genuine "quality feel" about it whereas the Toyotas felt cheap and nasty.
Quality's not just about reliability and build quality. My work colleague with an an XC90 had a similar anti Ford bias but even he now agrees that he wasted $30,000 on the Volvo when my fully optioned Ghia is probably a better all round vehicle.
Hey Ouzo, you have stated my excact conditions as well. This is the very first ford I have owned, and after two weeks of ownership I am begining to wonder wheather I should have stayed with Holdens. While my Ghia is very nice, the Quality problems are very evident. First the car was delivered with the wheel alligment out, now the trim is falling out, and the interior plastic on the rear is softer than butter, already showing scrathes. And to top it off I still have a feeling the wheel aligment is not 100%. And this in a vehicle that has only done 1500 K's.
Does anyone here remember the Leyland P76? Started off as a great car, new design but the quality proved fatal. Just hope the Teri does not go down the same path...
And as far as toyotas, I tend to compare them to Mcdonalds. Not very exciting but very consistant, and that is what the avarage byer (including me) wants. True consistancy so you know what you are getting and donot have to deopend on luck to get a good build.
Maybe I'l trade in on a new Adventra before the resale value goed down.
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