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I didnt necessarily buy my Liberty for the advantage to go off road. I bought it mainly for its sure footedness on the road and excellent handling, plus its safety in the wet, and I wanted it to be as safe as possible for the family in most aspects.
If I wanted an 4WD for off roading I would have looked at the Territory, Outback, Forester, Kluger etc.
Not all Liberty owners buy AWD subaru's for off roading purposes. I still have yet to take mine on a dirt road.
just my 2c
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PREVIOUS RIDES:
* EA Falcon Gli (5 speed 6 cyl)
* XE Fairmont Ghia (250xflow EFI auto)
* ZJ Fairlane (351 clevo auto)
* XC gs fairmont (351 clevo auto)
* XE S pack (250xflow auto)
* EB XR8 (5.0L EFI auto) now owned by Saltez - ff member
currently: 2000 Subaru Liberty wagon gx (2L auto AWD)
[quote=Territory]Next winter, see how secure it is on icy roads and how far it can take you up at the snow vs others!
QUOTE]
It is a comforting thought that my AWD will be safer in these conditions but the counter argument is how often will these conditions be encountered. I live in Tasmania at about 400 metres above sea level and I've encountered ice on the road once in the last 3 years (and that caused no dramas in a Commodore). Of course if one winter morning I hit black ice at speed, I will no doubt be forever grateful for AWD and DSC.
One thing I have noticed in my all too brief time in the Terri is how brilliant it is at speed on dirt roads. I've never driven a vehilce that inspired such confidence (including the wife's AWD Subaru). Would be interesting to see how a RWD compares.
Anyway, I love the Terri and dont regret opting for the AWD. I just have a funny feeling that in 5 years time when the lease is up I'm going to look back and think I may as well have opted for the RWD and saved myself quite a few thousand dollars.
An interesting thread that gets to the heart of the matter. It shouldn't surprise you lordricey (or you at Ford either Territory) because Ford has tapped a huge latent demand that has been there a long time (Leyland/Rover Australia/Land Rover were considering such a car more than 20 years ago but decided the love affair with the 4WD was still too strong then, and the Rangie was still in its prime). Our family bought the Territory because we wanted a car (not a truck), one that drove like a good car, but had the space etc of a 4WD. I also seem to recall that the Wheels road tests found that the RWD Territory was a marginally better road car and the AWD was a good compromise that had that added dirt ability. Point is, people are now moving away from driving those big Tonka trucks to schools, shopping centres and along the highway (where they figure prominantly in single vehicle accidents that wipe out whole families, because a natural instinct in an untrained human is to suddenly correct the steering when confronted with a situation, resulting in the vehicle going over). Real off road (meaning off dirt roads as well) - that's another matter, but the AWD Territory is obviously a vehicle that can satsify both needs to the degree that most people need (that is, no worse than dirt roads). Until the great marketing con came along that convinced people they needed a 4WD to travel on a dirt road, everybody (as any older country dweller will tell you) got along fine in RWD Holdens and Falcons and even FWD BMC cars which were excellent on dirt. All the Territory is doing is bringing Australian motorists out the other end of a marketing era that has served the Japanese importers very well thanks. Thing is, of course, is that those importers are big enough and smart enough that they will come up with a challenge soon just like the Mini got copied by every small car since.
A few bits of info.
- Wagon sales have remained stable despite Territory.....
Can you show the figures on this?
I only ask because I read last week one of Ford's exect's stating that the Territory has taken some sales from the Falcon wagon, but that they were not concerned.
A most interesting thread for me, as I almost purchased a RWD, but finally settled on AWD.
Living in Darwin with the wet season approaching, I pondered on the benefits of the system that would make its presence felt only a small part of the time. It was at that point that I realised that the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks.
I have driven Nissan patrols for many years, and despite the fact that I used their true capabilities very infrequently, I was often on dirt roads. Even for short stretches I would stop and placed the vehicle in 4WD, as the difference in stability is amazing.
We have been having a bit of rain here in the last week or so (anyone familiar with weather in the tropics will understand what I mean), and I have had the opportunity to test out the AWD system with DSC, without DSC, and also without traction control. Watching others getting sideways in the slippery conditions whilst the territory held its line was most gratifying. Even with all the electronics turned off, the chassis stability and the intrinsic handling is amazing, let alone for vehicle weighing two tonnes. With the system is turned on, it is almost impossible to upset the vehicle.
With this I am talking about slick surfaces with the oil just starting to lift, corners where the kerbside is 2 inches deep in water, and transitions from ashphalt to mud. I can't imagine sacrificing this level of stability and security for a few dollars.
The AWD territory handles better than most vehicles on the road, short of true sports cars. I can't imagine swapping it for real wheel drive only now.
Well in the RACV road test of the SUV's the RWD territory held its own very very well compared the the AWD and the other AWD vehichles tested, apart from it had a little bit of trouble on slippery mud hills, the extra expense unless going 4WD tracks was not really needed, they were only going to use the RWD terri in testing against the other RWD's being tested, but found it performed so well, they put it throught the AWD testing as well, and it passed very well.
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I did put something here, but it vanshied, I think
The all-wheel drive model is targeted at people who are more likely to go off road with their vehicles.
Having said that, the rear wheel drive wagon is going to take you just about anywhere you're likely to want to go without getting the car scratched.
Where all-wheel drive really comes into its own, however, is in the wet, where its value cannot be overstated.
It's a full time system which distributes torque 62 per cent to the rear axle and 38 per cent to the front, with a rear wheel bias that Ford says is favoured by customers.
Add in stability control or Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) as it is called, and Territory offers impressive levels of ride and handling, particularly for a vehicle with a high centre of gravity.
DSC draws on the he services of the car's traction control and ABS brake systems to monitor and check wheel spin at each corner.
Throw it at a corner and you will be surprised at how unflustered it remains.
The AWD model felt slightly more planted than its RWD brethren on sealed roads, but in hindsight there wasn't a huge difference in the way they behaved on sealed roads.
For the uninitiated, it would be nigh on impossible to tell the difference between models on bitumen, but on unsealed roads and in the wet the AWD model felt much more secure with more grip and control.
When climbing up hills and steep inclines, the AWD Territory had the RWD model's measure yet again, but most Territorys will probably never leave the blacktop, one of the reasons why a RWD model is offered.
The $4000.00 that AWD owners paid was not only for a transfer case, front tail shaft & differential & drive shafts, but also for the Dynamic Stability Control system. Add all these items up & that seems like very good value to me.
Subaru have known the benefits of AWD for years, that’s why there most powerful sports cars have it as standard.
Nissan has also known the benefits, remember the GTR Godzilla? It blitzed everything at the races; CAMS eventually changed the rules making it illegal for the race team to use AWD.
I agree with the RWD supporters; for ‘steady as she goes’ city driving RWD is perfectly fine, and the Territory RWD is set up so well that experienced drivers can easily push it to the limit and have a safety margin.
But for anything else, read the quotes.
The $4000.00 that AWD owners paid was not only for a transfer case, front tail shaft & differential & drive shafts, but also for the Dynamic Stability Control system. Add all these items up & that seems like very good value to me.
Subaru have known the benefits of AWD for years, that’s why there most powerful sports cars have it as standard.
Nissan has also known the benefits, remember the GTR Godzilla? It blitzed everything at the races; CAMS eventually changed the rules making it illegal for the race team to use AWD.
I agree with the RWD supporters; for ‘steady as she goes’ city driving RWD is perfectly fine, and the Territory RWD is set up so well that experienced drivers can easily push it to the limit and have a safety margin.
But for anything else, read the quotes.
The $4000.00 that AWD owners paid was not only for a transfer case, front tail shaft & differential & drive shafts, but also for the Dynamic Stability Control system. Add all these items up & that seems like very good value to me.
It is good value - I just don't think I'd get enough value to justify the purchase. I never drive in icy conditions and very rarely on roads dangerous enough to make 2WD cars too dangerous to drive on. I personally prefer the feel of a RWD car - it's what I've grown up with (maybe about 18 years worth out of 21 total driving years). The AWD DOES feel different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnydep
Subaru have known the benefits of AWD for years, that’s why there most powerful sports cars have it as standard.
Nissan has also known the benefits, remember the GTR Godzilla? It blitzed everything at the races; CAMS eventually changed the rules making it illegal for the race team to use AWD.
Very different argument. DSC is not a selling point for these cars having AWD. The only AWD benefits come from having power available from 4 wheels rather than 2. Given the power these cars have, it's very easy to agree with AWD. The Terri won't have this problem until the Turbo comes out :-)
(with my flame proof suit on) I still think however that RWD has more predictable car control than AWD, particularly given the weight bias in most AWD vehicles. Given what most Terri city owners would do with their vehicle RWD is generally the best option (all things considered). For country users AWD should be an automatic choice as there is often a need to get onto the dirt.
I think that the sales split has shown that Ford has made a spot-on marketing choice that no-one else in Australia will be able to copy. Holden's S3X I believe is FWD/AWD. Toyota's Klunker is based on a FWD. All the Korean boxes are based on FWD. Nearly everything in USA is based on FWD or a genuine Truck (caps to emphasise old-fashioned truck ladder chassis).
You are spot on Paulv but after 5 weeks of driving I have grown used to it. It ought not deter a potential AWD buyer.
Incidentally have just returned from a 2 hour trip in the Terri with a motoring enthusiast (Alfa driving) work colleague who is shaking his head at how well the Terri handled. "I love this car" was his quote.
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