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Old 02-03-2005, 16:39   #1 (permalink)
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Question Territory - where to from here?

While selling well and receiving awards as it is I'm sure Ford is now thinking about where to take the Territory a few years down the track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Territory
Yes. Currently involved in the future model planning for Territory.....
Territory, I have quoted you above from another thread so this is initially directed at you but I would also like to here what thoughts others may have beyond the turbo, V8 (it'll never happen), diesel, higher ride-height model, clock in the ICC display that's already been well covered.

I hope in your capacity you would already be familiar with these vehicles but can I suggest you take a hard look at the functionality offered by these two in particular. I think it would be ideal to have a Territory model in the same vein;

http://www.chevrolet.com/avalanche/

http://www.subaru.com/shop/showroom_baja_family.jsp

Whereas the truck based Avalanche is too large for Australia and the Subaru Outback based Baja is too small an extended wheelbase dualcab (for want of a better term) Territory would be ideal and create another unique market that has the potential to attract buyers from many areas.

What I would like to see on such a model is;
  • Obviously the functionality of the bed/cab sharing
  • Suicide rear doors as seen on the stillborn R5 concept of 2000 (and as seen on the Courier and other US based Fords)
  • An integral cab and bed configuration the way utes are meant to be built. The AU-BA Falcon being an abberation with it's pick-up style removable tray.
  • Keep the Control Blade rear end and don't just graft the ute frame and it's 'Wide Trac Hotchkiss'™ (aka leaf spring) rear end on - leave that for the trady's - this is more targeted to the recreational buyer.
  • A longer wheelbase so it doesn't look as awkward as the Subaru.

You'll need to create a few new bits (tailgate and mid-gate) but much of it is already there in either the Territory/Falcon or Ford international parts bin.

Ford has been rewarded both by the media and the marketplace for being bold with the initail Territory so don't stop now.
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Old 02-03-2005, 18:19   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Territory - where to from here?

Hi Raptor - I think the problems are
- small customer base
- competitive producst

You wouldn't make one of these unless your guaranteed another 20,000 customers.

Ford's already got a million Courier variants, Falcon ute variants, and F-series. Adding another Ute to that list doesn't make economic or marketing sense.
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Old 02-03-2005, 18:52   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Territory - where to from here?

I disagree PaulV,

They already had a Falcon Wagon and Explorer/Escape 4WD's so why build the Territory?

Because Aussies getting out of Falcodores weren't buying these US or Japan Ford imports but instead buying Cruisers, Patrols, Pajeros, Prados with 4WD ability that most didn't really need just to get the practicality of the body configuration or into people movers that they didn't really like but had the extra seating capacity.

Because it's a better fit for what the Aussie market wants, it's based on a Falcon that they trust, it combines the best features from many vehicles and offer's them to the Aussie market without too many compromises at a competitive price and it's something refreshingly different.

How many Hilux, Rodeos, Tritons etc are out there on the roads that might once have been the traditional Ford/Holden ute buyer?

The market has shifted and Ford need to leapfrog the competition to win back a decent slice. It has done that for the family cross-over wagon segment with the Territory and could do it again into the recreational dual-cab market with something like this leveraging off the Territory platform.
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Old 02-03-2005, 20:11   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Territory - where to from here?

Good looking vehicles.
http://www.chevrolet.com/avalanche/
http://www.subaru.com/shop/showroom_baja_family.jsp

One major point when designing the Territory was to keep the production cost down, so as to pass on the savings to the buyer. I'd say Ford have done a very good job of that.
To start introducing changes & increasing the number of different platforms will add to design, engineering, testing & production costs, which will need to be passed on.
If sales can increase enough costs can be kept down, but how many people would have a ute as their main vehicle, whose wife would say yes to one?
If people could afford to have a standard Territory for their main transport & a ute based Territory for a second vehicle, Ford would be onto something. Maybe if a large percentage of businesses that require a ute can be convinced to trade in the Holden/Ford/Toyota/etc ute Ford will have a chance.

If Ford can build vehicles, like those yank trucks, and keep the cost down without spreading the cost to other models, I'd be one of the first to line up & buy one, for my business that is & claim it on tax.

The yanks can afford to design & build those things, because they have the population numbers; 280,000,000 compared to Australia's 20,000,000. That is a lot of potential customers.

I suppose Ford Oz could try & get into the yank market, that way they increase sales to a point where cost comes down.
But that is a step that can only be done once all the bugs have been ironed out of the existing vehicle.
It took GM-H four Commodore/Statesman models before they started testing the export market. Hopefully Ford will do the same, they wont need four models though since the Terri is 50% Falcon based, but they will need a couple.
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Old 02-03-2005, 20:55   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Territory - where to from here?

If you're getting rid of the B pillar and having a mid-gate you would need monstrous C pillar strength! I don't think the suicide/freestyle doors are needed in what should be a proper dual cab.
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Old 02-04-2005, 02:28   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Territory - where to from here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAPTOR
Territory, I have quoted you above from another thread so this is initially directed at you but I would also like to here what thoughts others may have ...
Hi RAPTOR,
Ok get it off your chest
All feedback & suggestions greatly appreciated.
Please understand though that I cant participate at all, other than the odd comment about your ideas.

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Old 02-04-2005, 03:25   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Territory - where to from here?

Territory,

Here's my feedback for T2:

FPV / XRT Territory version:
ie - TURBO !!!!, Sports suspension etc

I think you get the idea.....
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Old 02-04-2005, 03:38   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Territory - where to from here?

Ford have enough engines in their empire. What would be so hard to drop the Land Rover diesel engine into Territory? Ford have enough engineers to do it. Holden have dunnydores running around with diesel engines. Holden might upstage Ford and Ford will again have to play catchup!!
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Old 02-04-2005, 05:15   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Territory - where to from here?

Off Raptors Original post, but, a Diesel, would be the natural progression for the car (looking at other thread maybe it is too good to be called a car)

They dont need to do much to the car as it is now, the Territory Mk II will be a small fix on some minor problems that have arisen, and from customer feedback and hopefully drop a diesel into the mix. Once the Diesel is in, its flow on effect for others in the range. (Falcon, They may consider a Focus Tdi, etc)
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Old 02-04-2005, 14:10   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Territory - where to from here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martyvan75
Off Raptors Original post, but, a Diesel, would be the natural progression for the car (looking at other thread maybe it is too good to be called a car)

They dont need to do much to the car as it is now, the Territory Mk II will be a small fix on some minor problems that have arisen, and from customer feedback and hopefully drop a diesel into the mix. Once the Diesel is in, its flow on effect for others in the range. (Falcon, They may consider a Focus Tdi, etc)
I'd agree with this but add a turbo petrol and a new gearbox with overdrive. I think any variant like a ute has to wait for the volumes that would come with export. I note that Wheels comments that the car's design for Australian conditions gives it an edge over all the imported cars that were considered for COTY. This engineering edge has been an advantage most locally produced cars have had since the 1950s. Now that the finish quality (always the achilles heel of locally produced cars) has been brought up to international standards, Ford should be promoting the engineering superiority with their US bosses to get it accepted for export (with appropriate powertrains for the various markets) rather than Ford producing for example the Freestyle in the US and working on another SUV variant in Europe that looks remarkably like the Territory (see Feb 2005 Wheels, page 28).
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