Ianoz

Does anyone have any comments on what the Territory is like for towing?


I'm looking to replace my current car (sob) with a 4WD because I now need to tow a horse float around to keep the rug-rats happy. Commodore SS manuals don't do that very well on wet grass paddocks........ The joys of having kids.

I'm not looking for an off-roader, just something with traction in wet and muddy paddocks with a tonne and a half + on the back. Currently either a Territory, Prado, or Pajero looks like the go.

I know they're rated to 2300kg, but any real-world comments on the effectiveness of the AWD would be great (compared to a true 4WD like a Prado).


Thanks - (and don't flame me for the SS ok )

 

Territory

All are capable vehicles for reasonably heavy towing. Only thing I'd recommend is to double check whether the quoted towing figure is achieved by sacrificing payload. Not much good if it can tow your float but cant take any other passengers or gear!

You might want to also consider Explorer?

I just read that the US F350 now can tow 8.5 T !!!!

Organza

Hiya Ianoz

No one I'm sure would flame you about the SS .....

I haven't done any towing in my Territory, but I have in a BA Falcon and I have no doubt that the experience would be very similar ....

Territory would be a great towing vehicle I'd expect. For the same reasons Falcon is a great tow car .... strength in the body, great low down torque from the 6 cylinder, great stability/roadholding in the T and the AWD system/stability control would top it all off for the towing job .... Prado remember has none of its advertised "Driver Assist Technology" until you get to the >$60K Grande model .... (gotta love marketers).

As for the AWD vs 4WD issue .... trust me when I say that the difference basically amounts to which manufacturers marketing department you are listening to ... :-)

There is fundamentally no difference except that (according to the spin doctors) if you have a 4WD you have a "true off road go anywhere beast" whilst if you have an AWD you have a "civilised around town car with the added safety of all wheel drive grip". Whether a car is 4WD or AWD ... they all deliver power to all four wheels... the differences you WILL find are in terms of transfer cases, low range gearing, ground clearance and wheel travel ... things like that.

So basically, ignore the marketing attempts to confuse you ....

The biggest differences in a 4WD or AWD are fundamentally these;

Part time 4WD - like a Courier or Hilux (manual engagement of 4WD).
On demand 4WD - like an Escape or Nissan X-Trail.
Constant 4WD - like a Prado (often have a low range transfer case)
AWD - like a Territory (usually dont have low range).

Test drive the Territory. I bet you are impressed. I haven't met someone yet who took a test drive and didn't love it.

I'm not buyest or anything as a Territory owner .... but get the Territory OK?

Paulv

Re Organza's comments - There's some bits that are not quite 100%

Even though I don't tow a float, I've heard that it's not just the weight that you are pulling, but also a downward weight limit on the tow bar. That's why many people buy the truck-chassis style 4WD - the tow bar doesn't attach to the body, only the ladder. The ladder frame is MUCH stronger than a monococque-style vehicle for towing.

Re the AWD vs 4WD - the 4WD often has diff locking so that even if you've got traction on 1 wheel you can still get out of mud. The Territory doesn't have diff locking so if you only have 1 wheel at the back and 1 wheel at the front with traction, you'd go nowhere. So it's not spin for a real Four Wheel driver - the car is great for all normal conditions, just not serious off roading.

So regarding towing horses - you may need to get opinions from the 4WD world and as to what works well.

johnydep

The Territory may not have locking diffs, but it does use a very sophisticated electronic AWD set-up.
The computr system is recieving data from all the vehicle sensors (check Ford site for listing), it then processes all information & regulates the appropriate devices; if a wheel begins to spin the brake on that wheel will apply so as to transfer power to the wheel with traction, this will continue until all wheels run out of traction. Engine torque is also controled to try & minimise wheel spin. It may not be a 4WD but it is one of the best AWD set ups available.

As for the towing capacity; when car manufacturers stopped fitting chassis rails to their vehicles people said that it would never work, because the strenght had been removed from the vehicle.
It turned out not to be true, with new designs, new technology & new materials vehicles are much better than ever before.
Even 4WD are starting to move away from chassis rail setups.

The Territorry comes with two tow packs; 1600kg max & 2300kg max. What does a horse float with a horse in it weigh?
I'm guessing 11oo kg max.

Anyway I reckon the Territory will do the job.
But I am biased

Ianoz

Thanks for the comments guys.

A double float can be anything from 750kg to 1500kg, and a horse 300-600kg, so it's not hard to put 1500kg-2000kg on the back.

My main concern is how effective the "electronic wheel spin control" AWD is at getting traction compared to traditional 4wd with diff locks, and how it is expected to go for long-term reliability. I expect it will be fine, but was just looking for confirmation.

The Territory certainly offers the best value for money if you don't need the full off-road performance and strength of a full 4wd. I've owned a diesel Patrol in the past, and you couldn't stop the thing -- but it was an utter dog around town..... I could push it faster than it would accelerate itself

johnydep

600kg, wow, what kind of horses are you buying, Clydesdales?

Unless you plan taking the float through some serious mud & four wheel drive tracks, you wont have a problem. The Territory's AWD set up is fantastic, perfect for padocks.
I know people that use sedans for the same purpose.

But if you have worked out that the wieght will be 2000kg or over, you may be better off getting something with a higher towing capacity.
The terra is rated a max of 2300kg and you sound like you will be pushing that close to the limit once you load your gear & family.

chevypower

Have a look at the Discovery 3

chrisb128

Hey Ianoz,

How often do you tow and how far? If it is short distances (< 100km) then a territory might be ok. Pulling around 1800-2000kg will really hit the fuel usage maybe in the range of 25l/100km and with a 75 liter tank it is not going to take you far. I would have a question mark over the drive train as well. Not sure it is built to pull those type of loads all the time. I had a ba falcon and a 1800kg boat and it was not the best to tow with. The engine really does not have enough low down torque to get you moving but once underway it was kinda ok. The awd territory is around 400kg heavier so that will also magnify the effect. If you are going to tow often (once a month) and your load is usually > 1600kg's then get a diesel. The modern turbo diesel is just as good as any petrol and they are built for pulling heavy loads and they are great on fuel. I test drove a few territory's and they are a great car but did no suite my purpose for towing the boat. Also doing around 2200 rpm @ 100 k's did not do much for me. That is quite busy for a 4 litre 6. AWD vs 4WD. If you really are stuck I would rather be in an 4WD but how often does it happen. I guess it only needs to happen once and you will wish you did have the 4WD. For me I went for the Pajero Turbo Diesel over the Territory. I find they are quite similar to drive though the engine noise from the diesel is a bit louder. It is also a good tow vehicle. Fuel economy is great at around 11-12l/100 km's city. Country is around 9l/100 km and towing 1800kg is around 16l/100km. I have all the options of RWD/4WD, diff lock, traction control, stability control etc. If they put a diesel in the territory I may have gone for that. Maybe next time?? My advice is if you are going to tow heavy loads then consider a diesel again and work back from there.

Ianoz

Johnnydep;
Yep 600kg is the top end. I'm more looking at 300-400kg currently - but gawd knows what the daughter will want next..... We're actually sharing a paddock with a Clydesdale at the moment..


Chevy;
Don't mind the Discovery, but the kids found the back seat access cramped - so i'm outvoted.


Chris128;
OUCH! 25L/100's gotta hurt. Towing fairly regularly - probably most weeks - but not far. Maybe 100kms round trip or so. Your comments on the drivetrain are what I was running through in my head. Expect it will get me out of 99.9% of situations, but is it heavy enough for years of service?

My brother runs a Pajero DiD for towing floats and it does a top job. An Exceed DiD runs out near $70k list though!! A GLS is more in the ballpark, and on my short-list, but not as well equipped as the Territory.

Drove a Prado Diesel for a week, and it's a dog for day-in-day-out city driving. Like you say a Territory with a decent turbo-diesel would be VERY interesting.....

Then again the F250 comes with a 7.3L TD...... Bit hard to park at Safeways though