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Old 07-20-2005, 03:07   #1 (permalink)
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Question XF Alloy Calipers (yes, again...!!)

Just about every thread on brake upgrades on 70's Falcons has a comment or two about XF alloy calipers. I know there are a lot of people who like them, and some who don't. If you read most of the threads, you may already know that I can't stand them. I have a few reasons for this, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion on what is a good caliper.

So, i was just thinking a few minutes ago about these 'great' calipers, and I have a few questions to ask/ points to raise.

We all know that XF Fords were not available with a V8 engine.

We all know that XE Fords "lost" the V8 half way through (figuratively speaking).

Now, the question is, when did alloy calipers first become available?

The reason I ask is, if these weren't available in a car that had a factory fitted V8, then they aren't legal to fit to a car that has (ie, any Falcon from the 70's).

Now, I could be way off on this, maybe they were available early in the XE range, and therefore it is OK to use them. But, they are known as "XF" calipers, so it leads me to think they weren't available when the V8 was around.

If I'm right, it is classed as a major modification, and an engineer's report would be required, but, what engineer is going to pass the fitment of "6 cyl" calipers on a V8?

Comments....?
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Old 07-21-2005, 04:06   #2 (permalink)
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Re: XF Alloy Calipers (yes, again...!!)

so then by this logic you would be against the use of 6 cylinder BA falcon calipers and rotors on a XC falcon??
the alloy calipers as far as i know were available on the XE falcons but are widely used on the XF series cars in an effort to reduce the weight of the vehicle and therefore reduce emission levels...
the problem with the alloy caliper is once it gets a bit of age into it is that it will tend to flex alot more than its cast iron cousin and therefore transfer more of this flex through the brake pedal and result in a lower feeling pedal.
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Old 07-21-2005, 04:24   #3 (permalink)
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Re: XF Alloy Calipers (yes, again...!!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RevHeadRon
so then by this logic you would be against the use of 6 cylinder BA falcon calipers and rotors on a XC falcon??
Hmm, pretend I know nothing of BA brakes. Now, ruling out the FPV upgrade brakes, isn't the 6 cyl caliper the same as the V8? Or are there three different types on a BA?
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Old 07-21-2005, 16:47   #4 (permalink)
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Re: XF Alloy Calipers (yes, again...!!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RevHeadRon
so then by this logic you would be against the use of 6 cylinder BA falcon calipers and rotors on a XC falcon??
the alloy calipers as far as i know were available on the XE falcons but are widely used on the XF series cars in an effort to reduce the weight of the vehicle and therefore reduce emission levels...
the problem with the alloy caliper is once it gets a bit of age into it is that it will tend to flex alot more than its cast iron cousin and therefore transfer more of this flex through the brake pedal and result in a lower feeling pedal.
I would be.

No. 1 They don't fit.

No. 2 They are s__t.
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Old 07-25-2005, 03:25   #5 (permalink)
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Re: XF Alloy Calipers (yes, again...!!)

yeah the standard BA falcon brakes are the same for 6cyl and V8,
and xbgs351 i was merely drawing attention to people upgrading old and outdated brake systems to a newer design, i could have just as easily said the same for the VT commodore brake upgrades i wasn't giving credit to the efficiency of the BA brakes, even though they are trying to stop nearly 1900 kg of car
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Old 07-25-2005, 03:42   #6 (permalink)
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Re: XF Alloy Calipers (yes, again...!!)

So, RPO-083, what caliper do you recommend to replace the original XY type? The original works ok for what I want to do with it, although the XF style offers a much improved slide mechanism to give more even pad wear. Having driven a 560+ hp XY ute with XF calipers up front and original XY drums on the back, I am considering using the same combination on my car. Even pulling up from 110mph I never felt as though the brakes were inadequate.
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Old 07-26-2005, 06:34   #7 (permalink)
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Re: XF Alloy Calipers (yes, again...!!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RevHeadRon
so then by this logic you would be against the use of 6 cylinder BA falcon calipers and rotors on a XC falcon??
Nope. My logic is about calipers that were only fitted to a 6 cyl. If the BA is the same for the 6 and 8, then it has nothing to do with what I was saying... :)

Plus the bolting on problem.....
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Old 07-26-2005, 06:39   #8 (permalink)
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Re: XF Alloy Calipers (yes, again...!!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by smally351
So, RPO-083, what caliper do you recommend to replace the original XY type? The original works ok for what I want to do with it, although the XF style offers a much improved slide mechanism to give more even pad wear. Having driven a 560+ hp XY ute with XF calipers up front and original XY drums on the back, I am considering using the same combination on my car. Even pulling up from 110mph I never felt as though the brakes were inadequate.
I am a die-hard Kelsley Hayes fan. They were available on XW-XB falcons. There are actually two different types, but both are great. Pad size would have be close to double that of the PBRs. And they brake excellent. I used to work mine hard every day on the way home (or, actually, every night), to the extent that the centres of the front rims turned blue from heat. The brakes never let me down.

But, their are heaps of people who absolutely love XF alloys.... Each to their own I suppose.
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Old 07-26-2005, 07:46   #9 (permalink)
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Re: XF Alloy Calipers (yes, again...!!)

[QUOTE=RPO-083]I am a die-hard Kelsley Hayes fan. They were available on XW-XB falcons. There are actually two different types, but both are great. Pad size would have be close to double that of the PBRs. And they brake excellent. I used to work mine hard every day on the way home (or, actually, every night), to the extent that the centres of the front rims turned blue from heat. The brakes never let me down.

But, their are heaps of people who absolutely love XF alloys.... Each to their own I suppose.[/QUOT



Mate you were wrong with tailshafts, now you're a brake expert

Please if you give advise please back it up with facts.

sorry you're experience turning the centres of youre wheels blue due to hard braking does not count.


Kelsley Hayes may have been good in 1970's, but this is 2005 , should we all retro fit brakes from the 70's?

I don't think so

Can anyone tell me the braking distance on a 70's falcon compared to an XF or current BA

Forget if you're wheel centres turned blue get the facts first.Before making any change to the braking system.

I do suspect in the last 30 years, Falcon brakes may have improved , if not some companies have spent an awful lot on R&D.

There are many good kits available today contact a reputable brake specilist like Hoppers Stoppers in Vic.
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Old 07-27-2005, 03:49   #10 (permalink)
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Re: XF Alloy Calipers (yes, again...!!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAGTHO
Mate you were wrong with tailshafts, now you're a brake expert

Please if you give advise please back it up with facts.

sorry you're experience turning the centres of youre wheels blue due to hard braking does not count.


Kelsley Hayes may have been good in 1970's, but this is 2005 , should we all retro fit brakes from the 70's?

I don't think so

Can anyone tell me the braking distance on a 70's falcon compared to an XF or current BA

Forget if you're wheel centres turned blue get the facts first.Before making any change to the braking system.

I do suspect in the last 30 years, Falcon brakes may have improved , if not some companies have spent an awful lot on R&D.

There are many good kits available today contact a reputable brake specilist like Hoppers Stoppers in Vic.
You certainly took your time finding this thread. I have been waiting for a few days now to see what you would post.

My main question is; How can you say that fitting 70s brake calipers to a 70s falcon is retrofitting? Nothing was said about fitting KH calipers to a current model car. It is amazing how you try and twist things just to discredit someone. I think you had either read the thread again, or learn the meaning of the big words before you throw them around.

Hoppers Stoppers........ if you insist. Do a search on this forum.

Testing of my brakes. Hmmm. 150-0 Kph stops in my car with recorded distances. This was done in three main stages; Standard brakes, KH calipers on the front, and finally, PBR disc on the rear. The update (yes, update, not retro......!?!?!?) to KH on the front gave me the most noticeable difference. I am sure that a man of your self-proclaimed wordly experience would have seen dynamic brake rollers. The car used to go on them regulary during and after the testing stages. The car was being driven every day, not just for a few hours at a time. Open road, around town, mountainous area, windy roads, etc. So, I will admit that most of it was "seat of the pants" stuff, but like I said, it was on the rollers regulary, and braking distance were checked each time. This was done a while ago, before I moved into my current profession. I actually think the KH done good turning the rims blue, all while showing absolutely no signs of fade.

Posting stuff like this obviously takes time. But, if you want me to justify everything i say, then that's fine by me. Oh yeah, and just so you feel good for finally saying something that I won't object to; I am a brake expert. You have now guessed my field of work. Congratulations.
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