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Old 10-16-2007, 12:20   #1 (permalink)
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460 Rocker Arms

Okay, I got the timing gears & chain squared away (Thank you, Paul) but I have another question. I have the old rocker arm set up on the DOVE-C heads, around 1970 I believe. There are no notches on the pedestal mounts or anything and the rocker guides off the valve stem. How much work is it to convert these to roller type? I've saw the Crane no machine conversion kits but I don't think those would work because there is no tab for the guide plate to locate on and I just don't care for the design anyway. Will most if not all roller rocker sets require machining these heads, and if they do, are there instructions about what must be done? I'm assuming the pedestal height would need to be reduced and the 7/16 tapped hole would need to be deepened. I own a machine shop so I can make the modifications myself. I just don't do automotive machining as my business.

For an RV towing application, do you think switching is even beneficial or would just getting new stock rockers be just as good?

Thank you for your help.

Ron
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Old 10-18-2007, 17:20   #2 (permalink)
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Re: 460 Rocker Arms

Hey Ron, I did those mods on my 460 a couple of years ago. I don't have the specs anymore but I believe you can get them from Ford Motorsport or HP Books "Ford Performance". You'll also need to use guide plates, hardened push rods, screw-in studs, and locks so it may get a bit pricey. Hope this helps, Ted.
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Old 10-18-2007, 17:34   #3 (permalink)
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cool Re: 460 Rocker Arms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rlzegers
I have the old rocker arm set up on the DOVE-C heads, around 1970 I believe. There are no notches on the pedestal mounts or anything and the rocker guides off the valve stem. How much work is it to convert these to roller type? I've saw the Crane no machine conversion kits but I don't think those would work because there is no tab for the guide plate to locate on and I just don't care for the design anyway. Will most if not all roller rocker sets require machining these heads, and if they do, are there instructions about what must be done? I'm assuming the pedestal height would need to be reduced and the 7/16 tapped hole would need to be deepened. I own a machine shop so I can make the modifications myself. I just don't do automotive machining as my business.

Ron
Ron, forgive me but I don't understand your post...specifically, onto which heads (which casting number) do you want to install roller rockers?

Paul
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Old 10-21-2007, 16:48   #4 (permalink)
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Re: 460 Rocker Arms

Paul,

These are DOVE-C heads from around the 1970. They use the cast rocker arms that guide off the valve stem. I've been doing some reading and from what I understand, this type of rocker arm was the original design before it was switched to "key" off of the pedestal mount. It also said that this original design caused increased wear in the valve train, which is why that style was changed. Because of that I'm most likely going to convert it.

Thanks Ted, for your input. I was trying to avoid a major expense but at this point it seems like it would be best to go through with it.

Ron
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Old 10-22-2007, 15:51   #5 (permalink)
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Re: 460 Rocker Arms

Let me try this from another angle. I want to get away from the original style rail type rocker arms. On my vintage 1970 DOVE-C heads, do I need to have the rocker pedestals machined for the use of guide plates? Some places say yes and some say no. If I can avoid the added expense I would like to but if I need to, it must be done.

Ron
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Old 10-22-2007, 23:55   #6 (permalink)
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cool Re: 460 Rocker Arms

Ron,

It is not always mandatory to machine the pedestals before installing guideplates and 7/16 roller rocker studs. But it does depend on your combination of parts (as to whether or not it will be necessary).

If you are installing a cam and spring kit, and you will use, say, a 1.900" installed spring height, then you don't need to machine the pedestals.

But if you are using the original valve springs that have an installed height of around 1.82", then you might need to machine them down before installing the guideplates, depending on your combination of valve train components. (We have been successful in setting up combinations without having to do this; your results may vary).

Tell me exactly what you are intending to do, parts to be used, etc, and maybe I can be more specific. In all the 429/460 engine building that we do with D0VE heads, we have not yet had to machine the pedestals but I can understand why others may have resorted to doing so.

Paul
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Old 10-23-2007, 14:08   #7 (permalink)
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Re: 460 Rocker Arms

Paul,

I do have the 1.82" valve spring height. I haven't purchased any rockers yet because of this issue so I'm open to options. The cam I have has 0.516" valve lift on intake and 0.543" on exhaust. The disassembled engine came with ARP rocker stud kit #100-1701, with an effective stud thread length of 1.0" and stud overall length of 1.900", and the base length of 0.750". That makes the stud overall length including the base threads 2.65". The engine also came with guide plates for 3/8" push rods but the new hardened push rods are 5/16" diameter, so it appears this engine is a group of parts that all won't work together and I understand I will need to buy the correct set of parts. I also have a Weiand 8012 intake manifold. The only rocker arms that came with it are the used rail type that I want to replace.

The intended use for the engine is in my 1978 Ford p/u for towing my 31' fifth wheel trailer. When towing it often involves crossing a mountain range so I'm looking for good power in the 2500-4000 rpm range. I am undecided about headers at this point because I'm afraid of losing low end if I use them.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated in terms of my rocker arm issue and if I can avoid machining the heads (as well as any other advice you wish to offer).

Thank you Paul. I owe you.

Ron
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Old 10-24-2007, 17:47   #8 (permalink)
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cool Re: 460 Rocker Arms

You will need to get either 3/8 pushrods or 5/16 guideplates.

You will need to purchase some roller rockers. These rocker arms may not fit under the factory stamped steel valve covers.

You will need to execute valve train geometery and establish proper pushrod lengths for both intake and exhaust pushrods.

Then assemble the parts, and if everything clears, great. B ut if there are clearance issues at this point then depending what they are you can address them. For example, if the rocker body bottoms out on the stud (because of the short 1.82 intalled height), then you can prop the rocker up with .080 lash caps and .050" longer pushrods.

Paul
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Old 10-25-2007, 16:52   #9 (permalink)
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Re: 460 Rocker Arms

Thank you, Paul
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Old 08-19-2009, 20:38   #10 (permalink)
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Re: 460 Rocker Arms

I am rebuilding a 460 boat motor. It has Dove A block and Dove heads. Heads have adjustable rocker pedestals and some kind of dual valve springs with unknown aftermarket cam, and rail rockers. I would like to install a 218/228 (at 0.05) cam with .503 total lift. Will the rail rockers be OK? Note that max rpm w/ jet drive is around 4600 rpm, with rev limiter set at 5200.
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