High altitude 460 - Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars
Ford Forum Ford Forum

» Auto Insurance
» Featured Product
ยป Wheel & Tire Center

Go Back   Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars > The Garage - Tech Forums > Engine Specific Tech > 429-460 Tech
Register Home Forum Active Topics Photo Gallery Auto Loans Garage Mark Forums Read Auto Escrow

FordForums.com is the premier Ford Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-22-2008, 12:45   #1 (permalink)
Hoggy
 
Hoggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 8
High altitude 460

Hi guys! Awsome forum here! I can see there are a lot of verry respectable and knowlegable people here.
So, I live in Colorado @ 7500 ft. above sea level. I drive a gnarley old 76 ford van that has a 4x4 conversion on it. 460 C6 NP205 early Dodge Dana 60 rear end w/ 4:10 gears and low pinion Dana 44 in front w/ Chevy 1 ton calipers and rotors. Tires are 36-12.50-16.5
What I would like to do is build a donor motor to replace the old one. I want to maximise tourque more than anything. This van is usualy loaded or pulling a loaded trailer. Lotts of steep hills here.
Any sugestions for cam carb and intake would be apreciated.
I intend to start out by replacing timing gears to 0deg and am also looking for a better distributor.
This will be a low rpm engine that will not see much above 4500rpm too often at all. Last time I spun it above 4500 was pulling some guy out a ditch in the snow. at 65mph my tach reads 3200rpms. So I would like to put together a combo that will maximize torque for pulling these long mountain roads.
thanx
Hoggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-28-2008, 19:19   #2 (permalink)
429/460 Fanatic
 
Paul Kane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 548
cool Re: High altitude 460

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoggy View Post
... 76 ford van that has a 4x4 conversion on it. 460 C6 NP205 early Dodge Dana 60 rear end w/ 4:10 gears and low pinion Dana 44 in front w/ Chevy 1 ton calipers and rotors. Tires are 36-12.50-16.5

What I would like to do is build a donor motor to replace the old one. I want to maximise tourque more than anything. This van is usualy loaded or pulling a loaded trailer. Lotts of steep hills here.
Any sugestions for cam carb and intake would be apreciated.
I intend to start out by replacing timing gears to 0deg and am also looking for a better distributor.
This will be a low rpm engine that will not see much above 4500rpm too often at all. Last time I spun it above 4500 was pulling some guy out a ditch in the snow. at 65mph my tach reads 3200rpms. So I would like to put together a combo that will maximize torque for pulling these long mountain roads.
thanx
Assuming 460 and not a stroker:
  • Your 1976 engine has a rotating assembly that puts the pistons a ridiculous 0.040" in the hole at TDC. This is not good for detonation control, especially with the loads the engine will endure in your particular case. My advice is to zero-deck the block when you rebuild the engine. Assuming you use OEM-style rebuilder pistons (which is fine in your case), the typical 460 rebuilder pistons have around a 24cc dish and, at zero deck, will have about 8.3:1 compression ratio with the D3VE-A2A heads. If you want a little more compression, then you can select the 1988-1992 460 EFI OEM-style piston (smaller dish volume) which will put you closer to 9.2-9.4:1 compression ratio with the D3VE-A2A heads (maybe that is not too much c/r at 7500 ft altitude?)
  • Bowl blend the intake bowls, bowl blend the exhaust bowls, smooth the short turn radius transition from exhaust bowl-to-exhaust port, remove Thermactor bump from roof of port (DO NOT raise port roof, just grind/smooth away the bump), 3-angle valve job.
  • Original intake, Holley 750 cfm carburetor.
  • Camshaft: Comp Cams XE262H (34-238-4) (<---with the 460 dish pistons) or Lunati 90460LK (<---with the 88-91 EFI 460 pistons)
  • Inexpensive double-roller straight-up timing chain
  • Recurved OEM Ford Dura-Spark electronic distributor and control box
  • Dual exhaust

Paul
__________________

We're on the web; click below:
High Flow Dynamics
Performance Components for the 429/460 Engine Family
Paul Kane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2008, 16:50   #3 (permalink)
Hoggy
 
Hoggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 8
Re: High altitude 460

Thanks for your reply Paul . I am currently looking for a reliable shop in the Denver area to provide the machine work . Have been trying to tune this Edelbrock 1407 750cfm carb that has a manual choke. I'm getting close, but not there yet. I'm thinking of setting it up like a 1406 meaning smaller main and secondary jets and slightly larger metering rods. I also have a good Holley built for Ford that I could use ( I am seriously leaning towards the Holley. no pun inteded). Also have a set of lighter springs for the distributor from Speed Pro, to faster advance the distributor. Hopefully this will help wake up the old engine a little, or a lot, I hope. I will definitely rebuild the Holley also just to compare. Besides , it has an electric choke. I am not shure but I think it is a 600 or 650cfm that was for a 460. Anyway, thats the plan. Thanx again for sharing the knowlege. Have a merry Christmas!
Hoggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 23:39   #4 (permalink)
429/460 Fanatic
 
Paul Kane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 548
cool Re: High altitude 460

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoggy View Post
Thanks for your reply Paul . I am currently looking for a reliable shop in the Denver area to provide the machine work.
Just machining only or build you the engine and hand it to you? If you want a longblock/engine built and handed back to you, then the closest to Denver that I know of is Cars By Carl, a 460 enthusiast and engine builder. He is in Colorado Springs, and just an hour's drive should mean nothing to you if you get a builder that specializes in these engines like he does. And his prices are extremely competetive:

CarsByCarl.com Tell him Paul Kane sent you.


Here's a guy in Englewood, but I don't know if he does complete engines or just specializes in parts and cylinder head work exclusively. Don't know much about him:

MPG Heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoggy View Post
Have been trying to tune this Edelbrock 1407 750cfm carb..... Have a merry Christmas!
Get the Holley. Much more adjustability. IF you can make the Edelbrock work, it may offer better mileage, at the sacrifice of power.

Merry Christmas to you, too.

Paul
__________________

We're on the web; click below:
High Flow Dynamics
Performance Components for the 429/460 Engine Family
Paul Kane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2008, 20:05   #5 (permalink)
Hoggy
 
Hoggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 8
Re: High altitude 460

well. the 460 never ran better. Put the 600 something Holley back on. The carb was given a tune by my friend Charley, who owns a small shop here in Evergreen. Based on his experiance, we went for a jet size that was close to things that have worked in the past for him. My next step is to put lighter springs in the distributor. Then we will put it on the sniffer and dial in timing and exaust gas. It shure is a big help knowing someone who has knowlege and tools. After I get my distributor and carb dialed in I will make a desision as to wheather or not to break in to the front of the engine and replace the timing set to a 69' to 70' straight up timing set. One thing I am concerned about that is if there is enough clearance from valve to piston with the new found lift.
All of these things will be taken into consideration when I put together the replacement engine.
I would like to be able to afford hiring someone to do the head work that was described,meaning the bowl blending .
I do think I am on the right track.
It is my opinion that these big 'ol Ford's are an extremely well built engine ,stock. I have owned 352's and 390's and were verry impressed at how easy it was to tune them, and amazed at how mutch tourque they made. The 460 has a ton of potential from what I can see. My goal is to put together an engine that is both reliable and powerfull. It seems that I will use the engine in my van as a test mule to some degree and apply what I learn to the replacement engine.
I will more than likely have a shop put together a long block and install the engine myself.
Thank the Lord for the big block Ford
Happy New Year!
Hoggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 21:48   #6 (permalink)
429/460 Fanatic
 
Paul Kane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 548
cool Re: High altitude 460

If you are questioning whether the camshafts that I suggested (above) will risk valve-to-piston clearance problems with the D3VE heads and OEM-style pistons, then the answer is "not at all." In fact, you could run flat top pistons with either of those cams and the D3VE heads and still be fine. Further yet, the earlier 460 heads (1968-1971) put the valves 0.100" closer to the shortblock than the D3VE's and still, the valves will clear no problem.

Glad to hear the engine is running much better,

Paul
__________________

We're on the web; click below:
High Flow Dynamics
Performance Components for the 429/460 Engine Family
Paul Kane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2009, 18:21   #7 (permalink)
Hoggy
 
Hoggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 8
Re: High altitude 460

I think I've found a donor motor! It's out of a '76 Mercury Marquis, not shure of the miles I think less than 75k. IF I buy it I will have it magged , decked, line honed and bores checked and honed or bored acordingly. I will first inspect everything during teardown and note any potential problems. With any luck I wont find any marks on parts that bring up red flags. I still intend to put in the straight up timing gears and chain in the mean time ,as I am shure it will take at least six months to pay for this with my milk money. I think I can get a sound build around two grand. Then again I could be dreaming.I do believe that with me turning my own wrenches as usual it is a worthy goal. With stock parts (mostly) I think I'l be all right . No matter what ,I will make shure its a good build regardless if I go over a bit. All I need to do is stay working. The rest takes care of it's self.
Paul, thanks for all of the sound advice.You have my respect sir.
I know its not polliticly correct to be plowin down the road in a big 4x4 guzzler, but I have to admit There is no better experiance behind the wheel than to power up a steep hill with a load and still have more throttle if ya want it.
Now I just need a new set of snow tires, just cuz, know what I mean.
Hoggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2009, 15:41   #8 (permalink)
429/460 Fanatic
 
Paul Kane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 548
cool Re: High altitude 460

Hoggy,

You're very welcome; any other questions during your build, feel free to ask.

Paul

p.s.: Won't hurt to check align bore...most of the time these blocks have a great factory align bore, so check it but align hone only if necessary.
__________________

We're on the web; click below:
High Flow Dynamics
Performance Components for the 429/460 Engine Family
Paul Kane is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars > The Garage - Tech Forums > Engine Specific Tech > 429-460 Tech



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:28.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.