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Making a 514

42K views 15 replies 3 participants last post by  shadow_almanza 
#1 ·
I shelled my 429 two weeks ago, broke the cam in 3 pieces and shot the rod and piston out the bottom of my oil pan. Here is my question I found another 429 I want to stroke it to a 514 with a roller cam, what special concerns do I need to look at? I know I need to address the oil system on the 385 series motors. Any advice would be greatful!
 
#2 ·
...I found another 429 I want to stroke it to a 514 with a roller cam, what special concerns do I need to look at? I know I need to address the oil system on the 385 series motors. Any advice would be greatful!
The oiling system design in the 385 Series (429/460) engines is not at all a bad one and it perplexes me how this rumor might have come to be. In fact, Ford Racing's 514 crate motor (actually a 521) uses a bone stock oiling system with HV pump and that engine generates 625 hp. You can build a 514 and use a bone stock oiling system and have a fine running engine. Also, as with any high hp racing engine of any brand, addressing oiling (etc) is always a good idea.

How you approach your 514 build depends on what you are trying to accomplish with the build. Is this a race-only engine? Street & strip? Marine? Must it run on pump gas as what is the octane available in your region? Please give some more details as to your intentions.

As I understand it, the 460 was originally designed with the intent of eventually making it a 500 cubic inch engine so as to go after Cadillac's 500 inch engine, but this never came to fruition due to the fuel shortage of the 1970's and also growing emmissions concerns. My point is that because of the engine's design, the 514 is a super easy and reliable build to do. But in regards to a specific combo, it still helps to know precisely what you want to get from such an engine.

Paul
 
#3 ·
I want to build a really strong street/strip motor. It mostly a street car that I drive 10 to 15 times a year (65 Galaxie). The 429 that was in it was a great engine until I ruined it. I'm running a wieand 2x4 tunnel ram and I don't know what cam I had in it, the motor was in the car when I bought it 3 years ago. I want to do this 514 right with a roller cam, lifters. Do you have to prep the block special for a roller cam and lifters? The heads that I have are the c9ve-a that were ported with stainless steel valves. These head were on my 429 are the worth keeping or would aluminum heads better out of the box? I would like to run on pump gas but I want 500hp so If I have jump to 100 or 110 For as much as I drive her for the hp I would do it.
 
#4 ·
The block does not necessarily need to be prepared to accomodate aftermarket roller lifters. That being said, note that a properly planned pump gas 514 stroker combo that generates 500 hp can be done in your sleep and with a hydraulic lifter camshaft, and most certainly with a tunnel ram.

If you are on a budget, then well ported C9VE iron heads and a hydraulic cam can meet your needs. If you want to spend some money and spring for a roller cam valve train upgrade--which by itself is an instant $1000 more than the hydraulic lifter valve train--you can do this, but my personal opinion is it would not be money wisely spent for getting the most bang-for-buck 500 hp pump gas stroker. You could certainly get more than 500 hp, but regardless of power output also remember that maintenance goes up and reliability drops.

Lastly, if you have a standard bore block, then go just 0.030" over and build the 501. There is little hp gained from the 514 overbore (0.080") since these engines have big bores to begin with, and the majority of power comes from stroking them....so save your block for future overbores.

Starting with a pump gas friendly, iron headed, hydraulic lifter valve train engine, generally:
  • Std bore block, cleaned and magged, square decked to 10.295" deck height, block oiling mods as outlined on the High Flow Dynamics Technical Pages
  • SCAT 501 stroker kit with cast 4.14" crankshaft, 6.700" forged rods, and 1.52" Diamond forged -32cc dished pistons (compression ratio will be about 9.6:1 and pump gas friendly)
  • New oil pump std volume or high volume (I would opt for the HV pump, but that's just me)
  • Brand name double-roller timing chain
  • CompCams camshaft grind # 296AH-8 and accompanying valve springs, 10* retainers and locks
  • Stainless steel valves in those C9VE heads
  • Recurved Ford Dura-Spark distributor, or aftermarket
  • (2) Holley 750 carbs on that tunnel ram
  • tubular headers
Well built and in good tune, the above should manage 500hp, and then some. Probably the important thing here is that the C9VE heads are well ported. 91 octane premium pump gas would likely be necesary in that big car of yours.

Hope this helps,

Paul
 
#6 ·
P.S. Also, 1.73 ratio BBF Crane Gold Series roller rockers, or Ford Motorsport 1.73 BBF roller rockers (made by Crane), 1.900" effective stud length 7/16" rocker studs for the valve train, guideplates and hardened pushrods. Pushrod length is the last thing to be determined based on the rest of the parts used, but generally the pushrods are longer than OEM 429/460 pushrods and the exhausts are usually longer than the intakes.

Note that I am recommending the use of brand name parts and NOT cheapo fly-by-night ebay parts. Putting such parts in an exotic engine may seem like saving a few bucks at the time but will bite you in the ass down the road and likely destory your whole engine in the process.

Paul
 
#8 ·
For what you are intending to build, either manufacturer's components will do. Regardless of which brand you choose, it's always best to measure all spec's prior to installation and correct if necessary; this is custom engine building. Generally, we work with SCAT components.

Our prices vary depending on build specifics and one cannot simply quote a price for a "shortblock." Also, we are in California and depending where you are the shipping could add to the cost of the build. Call if you're really interested and we'll discuss. Also, I'd be more than happy to point you in the direction of a reputable builder that may be closer to your area if you're not on the left coast somewhere.

Paul
 
#10 ·
Bret Powell at PFC Engines os the closest I can get to Nebraska. Iberia MO, about 350 miles from you.

PFC Engines 573-793-2177

There's also Terry Bumgarner at Bumgarner Racing in Springfield, MO. Again, about 350 miles away.

Bumgarner Racing 417-880-5015

These guys are very high-end Ford engine builders and their pricing may reflect this, but so will the workmanship that goes into your build

Paul

p.s.: I'll may see if there's anyone closer, but these guys are GOOD.
 
#11 ·
Paul I'm going with a 545 stoker setup from eagle. 30 over and a 4.5 stroke what cam should I run? This car has no power accessors and I drive it about maybe 20 to 30 times a year. I'm going to use my 429 c9ea head for now. Until I can pony up an extra 2200.00 for the super cobrajet heads!
 
#12 ·
If you use a 4.5 stroker 545 kit, then insist on the 6.800 connecting rods, not 6.700.

In this particular build, the C9VE heads will work since they are ported and with big valves. If they weren't, then the 545's engine power would suffer substantially above ~4000 rpm.

Your compression ratio will go up slightly with the increased stroke, so keep this in mind if pump gas is mandatory. Switching to SCJ heads down the road will make up the difference in necessary fuel octane requrements, but the SCJ heads require different pistons than the C9VE heads (valve locations are different). I may know where to get some pistons with both valve layouts machined into them, but they are not cheap.

Also with the 545 the cost of balancing the rotating assembly will likely go up too.

Lastly, you are asking more of the C9VE heads than if the engine were a 521.

Obviously the 521 is preferred by me, but not everyone.

Paul
 
#13 ·
Why do you prefer the 521 to the 545? Also the cam you told me about for the 502 will it work ok for the 545 or sould I call up and get a custom Ground? I Just took the block to the machine shop today. They are going to check it out before I order the Kit. There wasn't much price difference between the 545 and the 521 that's why I was going with the 545.
 
#14 ·
Why do you prefer the 521 to the 545? Also the cam you told me about for the 502 will it work ok for the 545 or should I call up and get a custom Ground? I Just took the block to the machine shop today. They are going to check it out before I order the Kit. There wasn't much price difference between the 545 and the 521 that's why I was going with the 545.
The cam that I recommended for the 500-inch engine will work with the bigger engines, but the bigger the displacement the lower in the rpm range power will peak, given the same camshaft. With the 545, I'd probably want more cam, but you are close to maxed out (cam size wise) for a hydraulic lifter camshaft. True custom cams are pricey but the payback is in the additional HP. Again, a 500 hp +/- engine is easy with the parts that I recommended.

I don't doubt that the retail price of the 545 is not much more than the smaller combos....it's AFTER buying the 545 rotating assembly that things get more expensive, such as balancing the rotating assembly, better heads to handle the displacement, bigger better cams for breathability (and the additional needed valve train parts that come with using that cam), etc. It all starts to add up pretty fast. More engine displacemnt + more cam = the worst fuel mileage you can imagine.

I like the 521 over the 545 for a lot of reasons. One reason is the better rod ratio; another is that the 521, with a 6.800 rod, puts the piston pin only 0.030" lower in the hole at BDC than the OEM 460. It revs a little better. It is better suited for the ported C9VE heads than the 545. If you have not driven one of these strokers yet (500CI & up) then I can garantee you that your jaw will drop at the amount of power that they generate, and bigger is not always better.

Paul
 
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