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Old 06-07-2006, 11:52   #1 (permalink)
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New here and need your advise...460 destroked to 429

Please bear with me - new to this.

I have a Cobra replica with a 2003 verison of Ford's 460 535hp crate engine ("cobra jet" heads, not "super cobra jet"). I recently had a knocking in the engine, so I pulled the engine and disassembled. Sure enough, #1 rod bearing is toast.

Since I have it apart......

I was considering the following:

Forged 429 crank (yes, de-stroke it)
Good rods and pistons
Solid roller cam that will let it make max HP at about 6,800-7,000
aluminum flywheel

Now my delimma(s):

A. I can't seem to find a forged 429 crank.
B. I saw the post about identifying numbers and am now worried that a 429 crank will not work in this block??? I was under the impression that they were interchangeable???

Have any of you guys gone this route? I like a higher revving engine and the car only weighs 2,300 lbs, wet. I can give up some of the torque for some HP at higher rpms, which would be more fun to me.

Since I don't want to invest $2k-$3k in a billet crank, am I wasting my time?

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 06-07-2006, 19:00   #2 (permalink)
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Re: New here and need your advise...460 destroked to 429

AFAIK, the only forged cranks Ford made for a 429 were for the Boss429, so these would be hard to get hold of. I'm not sure what has been produced in the way of aftermarket cranks, but you mentioned you didn't want to pay the $$$ for a billet crank anyway. The journal diameters are the same for a 429 and 460 crank, so interchangeability shouldn't be a problem. Some claim the CJ/SCJ 429 cranks were of higher nodularity cast iron, but even the standard crank will be fine for most performance applications. Just keep looking, you should find one.
You should be able to use the same rods that came in your crate motor, from memory they should be decent H beams. You just need to find some new pistons to suit your rod/stroke combo, as well as the 72cc chambers in the CJ heads. Combine that with a nice street solid roller and it will easily make power past 6500rpm. Good luck with it.
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Old 06-08-2006, 07:08   #3 (permalink)
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Re: New here and need your advise...460 destroked to 429

Thanks for the info.

I will keep looking. I have heard that they made some forged 429 cranks that were in some production trucks, but I'm not sure how accurate that statement is.

The rods in this engine are I-beam type. If I do this, I will replace them with quality stuff. The 514 does have the H-beam type, but this one did not.

I guess, after reading some of the threads, that my biggest concern was "Will a 429 crank drop right in this block without any problems?"

This is my first experience with Ford (just couldn't put a bow-tie in a Cobra replica), and I don't want to screw it up.

Thanks again.
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Old 06-08-2006, 11:23   #4 (permalink)
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Re: New here and need your advise...460 destroked to 429

Tom,
You can interchange 429/460 crankshafts so long as the pistons are designed to go with the crank. Main journal and connecting rod journals are 3.00 inches and 2,50 inches respectively for both 429 and 460 cranks.

CJ & SCJ cranks were selected for their high-nodularity content. Nodualr cast iron contains more nodules, or spheres, resulting in higher strength. They are identified by a Brinell test mark on the front or rear face of one counterweight. Personally, I've seena single one in 35 years. I doubt you'll locate one. And as Todd advised, unless you are going to all out race, a standard nod crank is more than adequate.

You could find some free compression should you be able to locate a set of '68-'71 429/460 heads. They came on all kinds of cars - many old Lincolns in the fields out there - and have smaller (75.8 cc vice 91+ cc combustion chambers), but going too high will cause detonation problems. Look for casting numbers:
C8SZ-B
C8VE-E
D0VE-C

If you're real lucky, in '70-'71 Ford installed bigger valves, push-rod guide plates and 73.5 cc combustion chambers in 429CJ, SCJ and Police Interceptor engines. Castings are:
D0AE-H
C9VE-A
In addition, the above engines were engineered with four bolts on main bearing caps 2, 3 & 4. Ultra rare find, but check out those barns........

Bruce
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Old 06-09-2006, 01:37   #5 (permalink)
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cool Re: New here and need your advise...460 destroked to 429

Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraTom
I have a Cobra replica with a 2003 verison of Ford's 460 535hp crate engine ("cobra jet" heads, not "super cobra jet")...#1 rod bearing is toast.

Since I have it apart...I was considering:

Forged 429 crank (yes, de-stroke it)
Good rods and pistons
Solid roller cam that will let it make max HP at about 6,800-7,000
aluminum flywheel

Now my delimma(s):

A. I can't seem to find a forged 429 crank.
B. I saw the post about identifying numbers and am now worried that a 429 crank will not work in this block??? I was under the impression that they were interchangeable???

Have any of you guys gone this route? I like a higher revving engine and the car only weighs 2,300 lbs, wet. I can give up some of the torque for some HP at higher rpms, which would be more fun to me.

Since I don't want to invest $2k-$3k in a billet crank, am I wasting my time?

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
With the Cobra Jet heads you have, getting a 460 to spin to your desired 7000 rpm is easy. Furthermore, destroking the motor to a 429 will not only make the engine more of a dog with CJ heads (compared to the 460), but you will also need to rev to 7000 and up to make any great power. Again, destroking these motors will reduce power in the usable rpm range and further, destroking with those heads is a mistake.

The 429 and 460 cast crankshafts are plenty strong for the motor you want to build, but replacing the rods (with some that are superior to those that came in your specific motor) would be good insurance. It will be necessary to clearance the rod and main bearings for your applicaton.

You don't even need a roller cam to attain what you wish, you simply need a little detail work on the ports of your CJ heads and the right cam for the job.

Finally, I'll bet that you have a D9TE-AB block, and if this is true then a 429 crankshaft will not fit into that block unless the block is modified.

Paul
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Old 06-09-2006, 01:49   #6 (permalink)
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Re: New here and need your advise...460 destroked to 429

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddZC
AFAIK, the only forged cranks Ford made for a 429 were for the Boss429, so these would be hard to get hold of.
There was also the 429 Lima motor that came in the F600-F800 commercial trucks, but these forged cranks require some significant modifcation to the snout and flange in order to be used in the crate motor.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddZC
The journal diameters are the same for a 429 and 460 crank, so interchangeability shouldn't be a problem.
Actually could be a big problem if the crate motor is a D9TE-AB block (likely). The 429 crank will not drop in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddZC
You should be able to use the same rods that came in your crate motor, from memory they should be decent H beams.
If you have an M-6007-A514 or M-6007-B514 crate motor or a 460 crate motor then you have late model truck-style I-beam rods.

Paul
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Old 06-09-2006, 01:58   #7 (permalink)
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cool Re: New here and need your advise...460 destroked to 429

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hosehead
Tom,

You could find some free compression should you be able to locate a set of '68-'71 429/460 heads. They came on all kinds of cars - many old Lincolns in the fields out there - and have smaller (75.8 cc vice 91+ cc combustion chambers),...
The CJ heads on Tom's motor are already at 72-75 cc's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hosehead
Look for casting numbers:
C8SZ-B
C8VE-E
D0VE-C
Tom Monroe's book is incorrect, there is no such thing as a C8SZ-B head. The identical early style heads are the C8VE's, the C9VE's and the D0VE's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hosehead
If you're real lucky, in '70-'71 Ford installed bigger valves, push-rod guide plates and 73.5 cc combustion chambers in 429CJ, SCJ and Police Interceptor engines. Castings are:
D0AE-H
C9VE-A
In addition, the above engines were engineered with four bolts on main bearing caps 2, 3 & 4. Ultra rare find, but check out those barns........
The Police Interceptor heads are not 71cc's, they are 88cc's and the common casting number is D20E-AB. Also, there is no such thing as a D0AE-H head. Finally, the C9VE head is a passenger car head from the 1969 model year, not 1972.

Not all Cobra Jet engines had 4-bolt blocks.

Paul
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Old 06-09-2006, 06:53   #8 (permalink)
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Re: New here and need your advise...460 destroked to 429

I have given up on the 429 idea. Too much of a pain, and why give up the 30 cubes or so. I'm going to leave it a 460 (actually 466)

Here is my plan:

Good "H-beam" rods - have not decided on brand, yet
Good forged pistons - have not decided on brand, yet
aluminum flywheel
Looking at a Crower solid roller. For some reason I can't access the Crower site right now, but the specs are in the ball park of: 245/255 dur @ .050 and total lift in the .650 area.
high volume oil pump

Now, Paul, if you're still out there tell me about, "It will be necessary to clearance the rod and main bearings for your applicaton."

Appreciate your thoughts, guys.
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Old 06-09-2006, 10:22   #9 (permalink)
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cool Re: New here and need your advise...460 destroked to 429

Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraTom

Here is my plan:

Good "H-beam" rods - have not decided on brand, yet
Good forged pistons - have not decided on brand, yet
aluminum flywheel
Looking at a Crower solid roller. For some reason I can't access the Crower site right now, but the specs are in the ball park of: 245/255 dur @ .050 and total lift in the .650 area.
high volume oil pump

Now, Paul, if you're still out there tell me about, "It will be necessary to clearance the rod and main bearings for your applicaton."p
OF the offshore H-beam rods available, I'd recommend either the SCAT or Eagle rods. Don't cheap out on your rods and buy an inexpensive set if you're going with chinese rods...the money saved at the sale will be eaten up at the machine shop (or more likely to take out your whole motor). Be sure to have the rods fully inspected even though they are new.

Probe Industries make some good, relatively inexpensive flat top and dish top pistons in both a .030" over and .060" overbore. Look at their SRS Series pistons. The flat tops with your heads will put you at over 11:1 compression ratio.

For a street/occasioinal strip motor, I would set oil clearances somewhere around .0025" (+/- .0002") on rods and .0029" (+/- .0002") on the mains...and get a High Flow Dynamics Stage 1 oil pump with included pressure shim kit.

Generally speaking, I think a .650" roller cam is too much for an engine of this size and will hurt low end power...but will run very strong over 4500.

Paul

p.s. Get some mild portwork (bowl blending etc.) done to your heads while the motor is apart.
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Old 06-14-2006, 14:56   #10 (permalink)
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Re: New here and need your advise...460 destroked to 429

"High Flow Dynamics Stage 1 oil pump with included pressure shim kit."
Where can I get this? Would you use the bronze or hardened steel distributor gear?

OK, I admit, I must appear scatter brained, but please remember this is my first FORD experience, and I didn't realize that SOME parts were so hard to find.

I am now looking at a SCAT rotating assembly w/4.150" stroke, which would yield about 502 cu.in.

.......any experience with these guys, good or bad?
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