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Old 09-19-2005, 05:16   #1 (permalink)
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eb 5 litre windsor in xf is it possible

eb 5 litre windsor in xf is it possible and can it be street legal wat would i have 2 do and would it be expensive
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Old 09-19-2005, 06:57   #2 (permalink)
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Re: eb 5 litre windsor in xf is it possible

G'day,
sure its possible.
My old man has a 1990 XFN (nissan badged) with a 351 Clevo in it.

The first problem you will come to is the shape of the XF firewall and the exit point for the heater core pipes. It is about 10-15mm behind the left bank.
Some people simply bash in the firewall, breaking the heater box and reroute the heater pipes up through the aircon flap.....hence deleting aircon. I am not sure how well the remaining heater componants work after this!.

Your next issue is choice of Tranny.....C6-6-10, manual...FMX etc. You may go for the LE95 electronic 4 speed auto...more mods to the electrics.

After that its compliance. To comply, the FIRST rule that applies to ANY state, is thatyou MUST meet the EPA rules that govern the later componant. In your case that means the engine, so you MUST retrofit ALL polution equipment (not hard..)

Then you have to satisfy your Engineer...this will differ from state to state, but a good rule of thumb, is brakes must be PERFECT, and EVERYTHING fitted MUST work....also the car MUST be roadworthy.

Here are some pics of the firewall mod for a clevo (windsor needs the same)
(this car walked through engineers)

http://www.jasonpigdon.com/auto/xfv8...conversion.htm

Cheers
Jas
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Old 09-19-2005, 18:26   #3 (permalink)
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Re: eb 5 litre windsor in xf is it possible

For a V8 conversion I think you need 4 wheel discs. Regarding modifying the firewall, I think the way around that is deleting/filling in the heater pipes (or whatever they're called), remounting the heater box 180 degrees around, making new piping holes in a "free area" of the fire wall (ie further away from the block) and hooking up some custom piping to these holes form within the dash.

The electrics would be a lot of fun! Personally I'd look into either a T5 conversion or the BTR95LE as stated in a previous post. Try & score both a 5.0 and its transmission in one go.

Good luck with it

-Dave-
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'91 EB Fairmont Ghia V8.
Pacemaker PH4000 extractors
Meaty semi-twin system
AUII XR8 t/b & maf, ELGT snorkel
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AU thermofans
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ET: 14.78 @ 91.48mph, 137rwkw!
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Old 09-23-2005, 06:53   #4 (permalink)
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Re: eb 5 litre windsor in xf is it possible

Dave,
it is not often that i am as forward as this...
On the heater core, you are so wrong ( i spent half an hour on your proposal).

The tranny choice....manual is DEFINATLEY easier!

The LE 95, although not the best choice whne compared to others,,,,
You have 1...the flexplate weight to consider, then electrics.

If you were to buy a 5.0 EFI coupled to an auto, including computer and wiring harness you are halfway there,,,,if you got a manual setup, then you are 3/4 of the way

Cheers
Jas
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Old 09-23-2005, 08:44   #5 (permalink)
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Re: eb 5 litre windsor in xf is it possible

I have seen a number of XF's with 5L windsors in them and all of them said there was no firewall modifications needed (unlike the clevo's). Also as Dave said I was told just to rotate the heater core so the pipes sat away from the block.
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Old 09-24-2005, 03:42   #6 (permalink)
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Re: eb 5 litre windsor in xf is it possible

Quote:
Originally Posted by jas24zzk
Dave,
it is not often that i am as forward as this...
On the heater core, you are so wrong ( i spent half an hour on your proposal).

... ...

Cheers
Jas
lol @ half hour!

I must admit that I am merely passing on 2nd hand information (in a way). A mate of mine introduced me to a guy who fitted a 351C in his XF, and he showed me the engine bay, pointing out that he'd moved the heater pipes and filled the old holes, and that he'd rotated the heater core around 90 or 180 degrees (can't remember what) and then made custom piping to the new pipe holes. There were two holes from memory ("in" and "out" maybe?)

Why I'm calling this 2nd hand info, is because to be honest my memory is a little fuzzy on this, as I saw this XF a while ago.

Jas, could you perhaps explain how/where you think I've gone wrong? I find it interesting that EDXR8 states/agrees that the heater core mod is OK, while you disagree. The only reason I'm asking this is because incorrect information can be dangerous, (such as us giving ford_boy advice) and I don't want to possibly give him bad advice.

Cheers mate,

-Dave-

PS EDXR8: I'm guessing the piping is fine with 302W conversions because the Windsor is a much skinnier block?
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'91 EB Fairmont Ghia V8.
Pacemaker PH4000 extractors
Meaty semi-twin system
AUII XR8 t/b & maf, ELGT snorkel
Lows
BA semi-manual shifter conversion
Electronic shift kit
4.11 Hydratrak LSD
AU thermofans
Explorer intake manifold
Contra 16x9 rims, rubber: 225(f)/245(r)
Custom cupholders
Chiptorque HP2 chip
illegal tint

ET: 14.78 @ 91.48mph, 137rwkw!
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Old 09-24-2005, 07:17   #7 (permalink)
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Re: eb 5 litre windsor in xf is it possible

G'day,
yes it is possible to reverse the heater core and run flexible hose as suggested.

The problem is the aircon flap. To reverse the heater core you must delete the aircon flap, and therefore you cannot have A/C.

If someone has succeeded in a work around i would LOVE to know about it!

I am going to attempt to attach a picture for the first time..and it shows an XF heater box (onthe left) and an XE box i used for my first clevo conversion.
On the top of the XF box, you can see the lever on top for the aircon flap ( the pivot point is red) this flap is actually pointed towards the blower fan (top of pic) and everyone i have seen done with a reversed core have either had the flap removed or the pipes passed through it and the vacuum actuator disconnected/blocked off

The way i go about it (and now some others i have shown the full details to) enables full heat and air....where everything works...except two fresh air ducts.....XF has 6 and XD/XE 4.

If you don't want air..then fine spin the heater core....but keep in mind it does affect other elements of the heating /cooling system.

A disadvantage of spinning the core, is that if you ever need to replace the heater hoses, you are in for a dash remove....OR your going to put in some joiners....whilst this MAY be ok, you are simply introducing another fail point for the system.

I may have cut a few guys down....please don't take it personally..but i work heavily with engineers in what i do. The way i go about V8 conversions, the 3 engineers i deal with sign them off without progress inspections.
i.e i am talking about doing these things with FULL legality.

Other items. Windsor vs Clevo fitment. I have seen clevo's with 3mm firewall clearance (this won't pass...something to do with heat transfer) and 10 mm clearance. This i cannot explain, but can only theorise that there seems to be different engine mounts available.
The windsor whilst smaller than a clevo, when fitted to an XF will suffer the same heater pipe clearance problem.....its an XF thing....if demanded i can put my hands on a late model windsor, a clevo and unmolested XF to confirm it with hard data.

Someone suggested 4W discs is a must......christ mate, Ford fitted 4w drums to cars with 428's in em!! but Front disc rear drum is fine!
It all comes down to the condition of the system. I have ALWAYS believed dads disc/drum XF stopped better than my Disc/Disc EB!....even after i rebuilt the system. The engineers i deal with have all signed off on Disc/Drum on all except one car.....I said new drums, the owner said no....the engineer said new drums......owner lost. But in hindsight, if he went for a RWC with the standard car, he was up for new drums. He winded up deciding on a 4w disc conversion....cost him shitloads more.

.Pic in this spot???

Cheers
Jas
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Old 09-24-2005, 19:51   #8 (permalink)
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Re: eb 5 litre windsor in xf is it possible

Quote:
Originally Posted by jas24zzk
Someone suggested 4W discs is a must......christ mate, Ford fitted 4w drums to cars with 428's in em!!
But that was back when things like that were OK regarding safety standards. Cars these days also tend to run pollution gear, have airbags, seatbelts, etc. Something that was deemed OK in the 60s isn't deemed OK today.

Once again, I most likely have it wrong regarding a 4 wheel disc setup. I thought that it might be necessary for XFs since they never came out with V8s. A mate of mine converted his six-potter XC to run a mild 351, and he still has drums. He is upgrading to a disc brake rear however (and LSD )

I'll have to get back to you regarding the guy who put a clevo in his XF and reversed the heater core. He's a member on the .au forums, and he's a friend of a friend. You never know, I might be wrong, he might've put an XD/E heater box in! My memory sometimes fails me lol

Cheers,

-Dave-
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'91 EB Fairmont Ghia V8.
Pacemaker PH4000 extractors
Meaty semi-twin system
AUII XR8 t/b & maf, ELGT snorkel
Lows
BA semi-manual shifter conversion
Electronic shift kit
4.11 Hydratrak LSD
AU thermofans
Explorer intake manifold
Contra 16x9 rims, rubber: 225(f)/245(r)
Custom cupholders
Chiptorque HP2 chip
illegal tint

ET: 14.78 @ 91.48mph, 137rwkw!
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Old 09-25-2005, 06:49   #9 (permalink)
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Re: eb 5 litre windsor in xf is it possible

Dave,
no stress on the possible misinfo....

On having drum rears.....when you front the engineer, he puts in a brake test machine and goes for a drive.
At the end the machine prints out a report. On that report there is a standard to meet. It IS possible to meet it with drum rears.


Cheers
Jas
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Old 09-25-2005, 17:07   #10 (permalink)
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Re: eb 5 litre windsor in xf is it possible

ahh ok

I learn a bit more every day lol

Cheers
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www.boostedfalcon.net

'91 EB Fairmont Ghia V8.
Pacemaker PH4000 extractors
Meaty semi-twin system
AUII XR8 t/b & maf, ELGT snorkel
Lows
BA semi-manual shifter conversion
Electronic shift kit
4.11 Hydratrak LSD
AU thermofans
Explorer intake manifold
Contra 16x9 rims, rubber: 225(f)/245(r)
Custom cupholders
Chiptorque HP2 chip
illegal tint

ET: 14.78 @ 91.48mph, 137rwkw!
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