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Old 10-09-2002, 01:18   #1 (permalink)
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EL ECU into EA

Howdy,

I'm looking at putting an EL ECU into my EA and there's a couple of areas I'm not too sure about, so I thought I would seek the help of all you smart peoples.

Firstly, I know that the EL ECU (as opposed to the EF) has the same number of pins as the EA MPI ECU, but are the looms the same (i.e. does each pin correspond to the same function)?

Secondly, can I use an ECU from an auto EL in my manual EA, or do I need to find an ECU from a manual EL?

Lastly, how hard is it to bypass smartlock? My EA doesn't have smartlock, so is there a way to simply bypass it, or would it be easier to hook up smartlock to my EA?


Thanks in advance,

Dave
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Old 10-09-2002, 02:59   #2 (permalink)
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A few things to discuss here, other may know more detail -

The EA ECU used gang fire injection, EL used sequential iirc.
EL has extra control for the dual intake. I think someone has a kit to bypass the Smartlock, MattyC may know? same may go for the auto ECU.

EL I think has knock sensor, but not EA?
Wiring layout completely different, TB up high and central on EL, down low and at front on EA.
Then there could be timing differences etc too


But really, what would the point be? it may be worth it if you were dropping an EL motor in.

Kieron
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Old 10-09-2002, 03:12   #3 (permalink)
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Cheers for the info, mate...

I know about the dual runner and timing issues, in fact this is why i'm looking into this, as I'm planning to run an EL dual runner manifold. I know it'd be possible to hook it up using an RPM activated switch, but that won't adjust the timing when the manifold switches runners, so ideally, I'd like to hook up the ecu.

I've been told (not sure how true it is) that the EL computer will plug straight into EB-ED (which has smart-lock) and operate perfectly. So I took this to mean that the looms and wiring were the same. Is this not the case?


If there is too much wiring involved, then I'll have to look at other methods, but I'd prefer not to...


Cheers,
Dave
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Old 10-09-2002, 15:57   #4 (permalink)
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Howz it going Thanatos.

I have been looking into the EL ECU upgrade myself to complement my Dual runner manifold, I even have the ECU at home.

Although I have not looked into it in much detail so far, I have been given mixed stories about different pin numbers, and the smartlock being hard to bypass.

The sequential injection may not be such an issue as in the worst case scenario, the entire injector loom will need to be changed, only a few hours work.
As for the knock sensor... I would not have a clue.

I reckon if we can get a hold of both ECU layouts (I already have the EA) it should be possible.

If you plan on running the EL manifold on a EA with a non standard cam, you will most likely get pinging down low when you crank up the timing, so this ECU might be a good thing to look at first (U probably already know this).

Keep me posted.
Ciao
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Old 10-09-2002, 16:45   #5 (permalink)
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The EL ECU does plug straight into an EB/ED with MPEFI and smartlock and runs fine - I don't think sequential injection came in until AU (fairly certain, actually) - tho maybe some late EL's got AU engines?. There will be issues of course with trying to run a later computer in a car without smartlock but the method of bypassing it will be the same for an EL ECU as it is for putting an EBII/ED ECU into an earlier car. And of course an MPEFI ECU won't run CFI.

And it's always good practice to use an auto ECU in an Auto car and manual one in a manual car etc.

For the BBM, pin 15 on the ECU is the one for the control circuit.

I guess you could also chuck on a knock sensor and run a lead to it's pin too - but I don't know which number that one is (should be easy enough for anyone to find out).

Here's the tricky bit tho - I put an ELXR6 ECU into my car and it ran fine - ie. with the BBM switching working etc. - but performance wasn't real good! The engine ran fine but I had big problems with pinging even after setting the timing properly to EL specs etc. So at the moment I have the EDXR6 ECU back in and running fine on permanent short runners and I'm looking into why it didn't perform as expected. Maybe the ELXR6 ECU is a bit aggressive in timing for the JMM cam I have? Next step will probably be to try a std EL ECU.
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Old 10-10-2002, 05:48   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
If you plan on running the EL manifold on a EA with a non standard cam, you will most likely get pinging down low when you crank up the timing, so this ECU might be a good thing to look at first (U probably already know this).
Cheers, mate. That's exactly why I want to do it... I've got everything I need (except for the ECU) sitting in the garage, but I want to get this sorted out first...

I've been trying to locate an EL ECU wiring diagram (I, too, already have the EA one) for quite some time now. Can anyone help me out with this???

Quote:
I don't think sequential injection came in until AU
This is what I thought, as well...

As for the knock sensor, I have no idea, but if necessary, then I suppose I could always chuck one in (does anyone know what's involved in this?).

I feel confident that it can be done, it's just a matter of getting the required information (wiring diagrams, etc.).

Does anyone know if there will be any negatives (pinging, loss of performance, etc.) if I were to perform the conversion and leave it on short runners for the moment??? I'm running a Crow Stage 2 cam, with some mild head work on an MPI EA 5 spd...


Thanks for the help, guys...

Dave
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Old 10-10-2002, 06:29   #7 (permalink)
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Thanatos,

I have both diagrams in front of me and they are very similar.
Knock control is the major difference and could well be the reason for ED Futura's detonation....ie No knock sensor, no knock detection therefore the EEC thinks it can throw heaps of advance at it.
EA to EL are all Bank fired not sequential. All V8's are sequential.
You'd really have to find a Manual EL EEC otheriwise some creative "tricking" would be required to make the EEC think the AUTO was still there


I think you would be better off staying with what you've got EEC wise. It would only be of benifit if (like ED futura)you had an engine more like the EL in the first place.

I have discovered the data location of smartlock in EB/D V8 EEC's but not any I6 EEC's as yet so your could'nt disable Smartlock with an EEC-tuner at present.
I have Base fuel and Spark maps uncovered with my EB II six but of course this doesn't help you.

What is the catch code of your present EEC?

BTW I dyno'd my 360,000 K old EB the other day 160rwhp at 5200rpm. It has EB XR6 exhaust system and pacemaker headers otherwise the engine is untouched. At the drags it did consistent 15.7's on a slightly wet track. I just left it in drive and stood on it.
It has stock 3.27 gears.

Cheers,
Pete.
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Old 10-11-2002, 00:23   #8 (permalink)
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Thanatos, at the moment and until I sort out how to get it running good I've just got my BBM on short runners and she's going fine. That's with the JMM cam, but before this cam I was actually running an EFXR6 cam with the BBM on short runners and it was ok as well. There's definitely going to be an improvement to bottom end once the long path runners can be utilised but being stuck on short path isn't a huge disaster.

XR9UTE, thanks for that suggestion (knock sensor) - I might look more seriously into that. Hopefully it'll simply be a matter of screwing the sensor into the block somewhere and running a wire to the proper pin on the EL ECU.
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Old 10-12-2002, 02:22   #9 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info, guys.

It looks like I'll have to hook up the manifold on short runners for the moment and live with this for a while...

I really do want to get the dual runners working, but with the aftermarket cam, I NEED the timing adjustment to work as well... I might try and find out what's involved in hooking up a knock sensor to a pre-EF engine...


XR9UTE, I'll look at my ECU catch code in the morning and let you know. As for the smartlock, does anyone know how hard it is to hook up??? It's looking like this might be the easiest option.


It's looking like it shouldn't be too hard if Ican figure out a way around the knock sensor and the smartlock issues. Then of course, there's going to be the task of trying to locate a manual EL ECU at the wreckers.


Thanks heaps, guys.

Dave
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Old 10-16-2002, 18:13   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by XR9UTE
EA to EL are all Bank fired not sequential. All V8's are sequential.
You'd really have to find a Manual EL EEC otheriwise some creative "tricking" would be required to make the EEC think the AUTO was still there
[/B]
Are you sure about this Pete?
the EEC IV 6 pot as fitted to EA-ED is definately bank fire, pins 58 and 59 I think.
EEC V from EF on i'm sure is sequential, check out pins 73, 74, 75, 95, 100, 101 - cylinders 5, 3, 1, 6, 4, 2 respectively.

AU introduced the cooling system failure mode.

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