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Old 12-15-2004, 20:33   #1 (permalink)
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Why have a central exhaust on a vee engine?

Back in the 60’s Honda tried some weird and wonderful things with their Grand Prix cars. One of the things that stuck in my mind was a vee engine with the intakes coming through the sides of the vee and the exhausts joining and coming out through the valley of the vee.

I have heard that other manufacturers tried the same thing in the early days of V engines. Does anyone know who tried it, what were the problems and what were the supposed advantages over a conventional engine?

I am guessing something like exhaust flow, pulse tuning and scavenging in the exhaust system but I don't know.
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Old 12-15-2004, 23:00   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Why have a central exhaust on a vee engine?

Among others who have done something similar were Brabham and Ferrari.
The Brabham had 4 valves per cylinder with one inlet and one exhaust on each side. In the middle of the vee was 8 inlet tubes for the injection and 8 exhaust headers.
Some of the problems included heat (less airflow around the pipes) and getting the required pipe lengths under the bodywork.

Why?

Because it seemed a good idea?
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Old 12-16-2004, 02:05   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Why have a central exhaust on a vee engine?

I can't see that much air flow going through the top of the V. It'd heat up like crazy I bet. Plus you then have to get it over the bellhousing to the side of the gearbox without hitting the firewall (nor heating it up too much). I think it's too much effort compared to exhausts on the outside.
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Old 12-16-2004, 02:25   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Why have a central exhaust on a vee engine?

even a holden 308 was built with webbers on the outer side of block.
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Old 12-16-2004, 03:28   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Why have a central exhaust on a vee engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho chicken
I can't see that much air flow going through the top of the V. It'd heat up like crazy I bet. Plus you then have to get it over the bellhousing to the side of the gearbox without hitting the firewall (nor heating it up too much). I think it's too much effort compared to exhausts on the outside.
I think this style appliaction would be more suited to a rear engine vehicle, like the Repco Brabahm mobile.
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Old 12-16-2004, 03:53   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Why have a central exhaust on a vee engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodge
even a holden 308 was built with webbers on the outer side of block.
yep, the pre crossflows
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Old 12-16-2004, 23:59   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Why have a central exhaust on a vee engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peuty
I think this style appliaction would be more suited to a rear engine vehicle, like the Repco Brabahm mobile.
Yeah I can understand that but I still think you'd get better air flow over the exhaust if it were on the side.
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Old 12-17-2004, 03:52   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Why have a central exhaust on a vee engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EF_Dave
yep, the pre crossflows
Pre crossflow Holden V8s??? I think dodge may have been talking about Repco Holdens or something like that, or alternatively just a huge crossram intake manifold. (PS a Repco Holden V8 is a completely re-engineered one they used to use for F5000)

The main benefit of the central exhaust in the Repco Brabhams was the reduced wind resistance by having the exhaust behind the drivers head - the cars were so narrow then (no sidepods like modern openwheelers) that the exhausts would otherwise add significantly to the frontal area, they were outside the bodywork. This was before there were wings in F1 don't forget.

Supermono I think the inlet and exhaust on each side of the head layout was called a Heron head, from memory the valves were radially arranged too. It never really worked although apparently years later they got the gains they were looking for, when it was too late.
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Old 12-17-2004, 04:18   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Why have a central exhaust on a vee engine?

can you imagine the heat damage to the paint on your bonnet if they did this to a normal car!!!
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Old 12-17-2004, 06:39   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Why have a central exhaust on a vee engine?

The reason I think this was done to help get manifold as close to turbo, I assume single turbo rules..There is a few Can-Am / Indy, [Open wheelers] cars in Fords Museum in Detroit with this set up...
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