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I've a 90 Tbird with a 3.8, which began running like it was missing a couple
plug wires only when cold, and giving me a check engine light after ~20min
of driving..
Any time I turn the car off the light stays out for about the same period
after restarting, even if it starts back up immediately..
So I borrow a code scanner, and retrieve codes for the O2 sensors being lean
on both sides (41 & 91)..
So I buy both O2 sensors, new plugs,wires,dist cap, rotor button, and coil.
I installed everything except 1 O2 sensor which I couldn't remove for the
life of me.. just couldn't break it loose in that small of a space (was hard
pressed to even get the ratchet to click). So I stuck with the parts that
were in, reset the ECM by disconnecting power 60secs, fired it back up, and
tested again..
SAME CODES =(
Well that pretty much tells me it wasn't the sensors.. return the other one
and put the 40 bucks into something else..
But the car runs like a champ now, no more miss, but I still get the check
engine light and same codes..
So I replace all the vacuum lines that don't disappear into the firewall on
me.. no change..
egr was mounted a little loose(had to do head gaskets last november),
tightened it up.. nada.. no change..
I waited until the light came on and tested without turning the car off..
same codes.. but the check engine light did go out after the test..
So what could be causing the lean O2 codes without really hurting
performance much?
On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:47:18 GMT, "Dark1"
<betterask4it@ifyouwantit.com> wrote:
>I've a 90 Tbird with a 3.8, which began running like it was missing a couple
>plug wires only when cold, and giving me a check engine light after ~20min
>of driving..
>Any time I turn the car off the light stays out for about the same period
>after restarting, even if it starts back up immediately..
>So I borrow a code scanner, and retrieve codes for the O2 sensors being lean
>on both sides (41 & 91)..
>So I buy both O2 sensors, new plugs,wires,dist cap, rotor button, and coil.
>I installed everything except 1 O2 sensor which I couldn't remove for the
>life of me.. just couldn't break it loose in that small of a space (was hard
>pressed to even get the ratchet to click). So I stuck with the parts that
>were in, reset the ECM by disconnecting power 60secs, fired it back up, and
>tested again..
>SAME CODES =(
>Well that pretty much tells me it wasn't the sensors.. return the other one
>and put the 40 bucks into something else..
>But the car runs like a champ now, no more miss, but I still get the check
>engine light and same codes..
>So I replace all the vacuum lines that don't disappear into the firewall on
>me.. no change..
>egr was mounted a little loose(had to do head gaskets last november),
>tightened it up.. nada.. no change..
>I waited until the light came on and tested without turning the car off..
>same codes.. but the check engine light did go out after the test..
>So what could be causing the lean O2 codes without really hurting
>performance much?
>
Possibly a dirty injector or two - it only needs ONE cyl to be lean to
throw a code. My 2.5 Mysique was doing the same until I ran a motorvac
session on it -(cleans all injectors and FPR)
<nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca> wrote in message
news:5apl71lbthrffl1vddj8hqkj3furfue3jg@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 06 May 2005 00:47:18 GMT, "Dark1"
> <betterask4it@ifyouwantit.com> wrote:
>
>>I've a 90 Tbird with a 3.8, which began running like it was missing a
>>couple
>>plug wires only when cold, and giving me a check engine light after ~20min
>>of driving..
>>Any time I turn the car off the light stays out for about the same period
>>after restarting, even if it starts back up immediately..
>>So I borrow a code scanner, and retrieve codes for the O2 sensors being
>>lean
>>on both sides (41 & 91)..
>>So I buy both O2 sensors, new plugs,wires,dist cap, rotor button, and
>>coil.
>>I installed everything except 1 O2 sensor which I couldn't remove for the
>>life of me.. just couldn't break it loose in that small of a space (was
>>hard
>>pressed to even get the ratchet to click). So I stuck with the parts that
>>were in, reset the ECM by disconnecting power 60secs, fired it back up,
>>and
>>tested again..
>>SAME CODES =(
>>Well that pretty much tells me it wasn't the sensors.. return the other
>>one
>>and put the 40 bucks into something else..
>>But the car runs like a champ now, no more miss, but I still get the check
>>engine light and same codes..
>>So I replace all the vacuum lines that don't disappear into the firewall
>>on
>>me.. no change..
>>egr was mounted a little loose(had to do head gaskets last november),
>>tightened it up.. nada.. no change..
>>I waited until the light came on and tested without turning the car off..
>>same codes.. but the check engine light did go out after the test..
>>So what could be causing the lean O2 codes without really hurting
>>performance much?
>>
> Possibly a dirty injector or two - it only needs ONE cyl to be lean to
> throw a code. My 2.5 Mysique was doing the same until I ran a motorvac
> session on it -(cleans all injectors and FPR)
But it's throwing a code for each side.. so I would think it would be
something common to them..
"aarcuda69062" <nonelson@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:nonelson-9C4159.23122305052005@newsclstr01.news.prodigy.com...
> In article <9FBee.9461$i1.6354@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com>,
> "Dark1" <betterask4it@ifyouwantit.com> wrote:
>
>> But it's throwing a code for each side.. so I would think it would be
>> something common to them..
>
> Does it have an air pump?
In article <ZuCee.9465$i1.7246@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com>,
"Dark1" <betterask4it@ifyouwantit.com> wrote:
> "aarcuda69062" <nonelson@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:nonelson-9C4159.23122305052005@newsclstr01.news.prodigy.com...
> > In article <9FBee.9461$i1.6354@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com>,
> > "Dark1" <betterask4it@ifyouwantit.com> wrote:
> >
> >> But it's throwing a code for each side.. so I would think it would be
> >> something common to them..
> >
> > Does it have an air pump?
>
> no
Okay...
Of all the parts you've mentioned, there isn't a fuel filter
listed. A restricted fuel filter would cause a lean condition
common to both banks of the engine.
"aarcuda69062" <nonelson@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:nonelson-F73591.01002506052005@newsclstr01.news.prodigy.com...
> In article <ZuCee.9465$i1.7246@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com>,
> "Dark1" <betterask4it@ifyouwantit.com> wrote:
>
>> "aarcuda69062" <nonelson@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>> news:nonelson-9C4159.23122305052005@newsclstr01.news.prodigy.com...
>> > In article <9FBee.9461$i1.6354@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com>,
>> > "Dark1" <betterask4it@ifyouwantit.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> But it's throwing a code for each side.. so I would think it would be
>> >> something common to them..
>> >
>> > Does it have an air pump?
>>
>> no
>
> Okay...
>
> Of all the parts you've mentioned, there isn't a fuel filter
> listed. A restricted fuel filter would cause a lean condition
> common to both banks of the engine.
>
> What is the fuel pressure and delivery volume?
>
> Have you checked for vacuum leaks?
good question, and if I was still equipped to answer them, I would.. I
figured a fuel pressure problem would result in it falling on it's face when
it was hammered down, or atleast some loss of power @ high RPM, the opposite
being true, the higher rev, the better acceleration is.. either way a fuel
filter isn't costly enough to skip over, I'll be sure to pick one up
tommorow.
As for the vacuum, I've had my head around the EGR for a while swearing I
hear a hiss, but could never pinpoint it with that mechanical fan clutch the
guys at advance auto parts talked me into making it windy as hell under
there..that's why I replaced all the lines short of the firewall. I don't
own a vacuum guage but if this is really the direction I'm going in I could
get ahold of one and plug those that do go into the firewall for a
test,reconnect them and test again to narrow it down those just run the
heater controls and shouldn't affect anything if disconnected and plugged
right?
It COULD be the Filter, but the one common thing that would act as you
described would be a dirty MAF, though you dont describe 'pinging' or
spark knock on acceleration.
Go to tccoa.com for general directions - EXCEPT:
It's NOt as fragile as described,
1. a medium bristled brush - like a cheap paintbrush- will help lots,
just dont 'bump' the element
2. do NOT use windex, unless you clean its residue with alcohol.
- but why not just use rubbing alcohol in the first place
"Dark1" <betterask4it@ifyouwantit.com> wrote in
news:q8zee.439$Ib4.402@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com:
> I've a 90 Tbird with a 3.8, which began running like it was missing a
> couple plug wires only when cold, and giving me a check engine light
> after ~20min of driving..
> Any time I turn the car off the light stays out for about the same
> period after restarting, even if it starts back up immediately..
> So I borrow a code scanner, and retrieve codes for the O2 sensors
> being lean on both sides (41 & 91)..
> So I buy both O2 sensors, new plugs,wires,dist cap, rotor button, and
> coil. I installed everything except 1 O2 sensor which I couldn't
> remove for the life of me.. just couldn't break it loose in that small
> of a space (was hard pressed to even get the ratchet to click). So I
> stuck with the parts that were in, reset the ECM by disconnecting
> power 60secs, fired it back up, and tested again..
> SAME CODES =(
> Well that pretty much tells me it wasn't the sensors.. return the
> other one and put the 40 bucks into something else..
> But the car runs like a champ now, no more miss, but I still get the
> check engine light and same codes..
> So I replace all the vacuum lines that don't disappear into the
> firewall on me.. no change..
> egr was mounted a little loose(had to do head gaskets last november),
> tightened it up.. nada.. no change..
> I waited until the light came on and tested without turning the car
> off.. same codes.. but the check engine light did go out after the
> test.. So what could be causing the lean O2 codes without really
> hurting performance much?
>
>
I wish mine was quite as well placed as that site has it.. lol..
I'll give it a shot though.. thanks..
"Backyard Mechanic" <pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote in message
news:Xns964E99DBCCBDApettyfogyahoocom@207.115.63.158...
> Did you clean the MAF?
>
> It COULD be the Filter, but the one common thing that would act as you
> described would be a dirty MAF, though you dont describe 'pinging' or
> spark knock on acceleration.
>
> Go to tccoa.com for general directions - EXCEPT:
>
> It's NOt as fragile as described,
> 1. a medium bristled brush - like a cheap paintbrush- will help lots,
> just dont 'bump' the element
>
> 2. do NOT use windex, unless you clean its residue with alcohol.
> - but why not just use rubbing alcohol in the first place
>
> "Dark1" <betterask4it@ifyouwantit.com> wrote in
> news:q8zee.439$Ib4.402@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com:
>
>> I've a 90 Tbird with a 3.8, which began running like it was missing a
>> couple plug wires only when cold, and giving me a check engine light
>> after ~20min of driving..
>> Any time I turn the car off the light stays out for about the same
>> period after restarting, even if it starts back up immediately..
>> So I borrow a code scanner, and retrieve codes for the O2 sensors
>> being lean on both sides (41 & 91)..
>> So I buy both O2 sensors, new plugs,wires,dist cap, rotor button, and
>> coil. I installed everything except 1 O2 sensor which I couldn't
>> remove for the life of me.. just couldn't break it loose in that small
>> of a space (was hard pressed to even get the ratchet to click). So I
>> stuck with the parts that were in, reset the ECM by disconnecting
>> power 60secs, fired it back up, and tested again..
>> SAME CODES =(
>> Well that pretty much tells me it wasn't the sensors.. return the
>> other one and put the 40 bucks into something else..
>> But the car runs like a champ now, no more miss, but I still get the
>> check engine light and same codes..
>> So I replace all the vacuum lines that don't disappear into the
>> firewall on me.. no change..
>> egr was mounted a little loose(had to do head gaskets last november),
>> tightened it up.. nada.. no change..
>> I waited until the light came on and tested without turning the car
>> off.. same codes.. but the check engine light did go out after the
>> test.. So what could be causing the lean O2 codes without really
>> hurting performance much?
>>
>>
>
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