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In article <dr6glk$kfs$3@blackhelicopter.databasix.com>,
Gary L. Burnore <gburnore@databasix.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:00:22 -0500, "Crusader" <white@xyz.com> top
> posted like an ignorant ****ing moron and wrote:
>
> >Isn`t Ford known as Fix Or Repair Daily?
> >That`s what they get.
>
> They? The workers get canned because the management gave them crappy
> cars to build? Heh.
It's not that simple: if someone hands you a crappy design to build, at least you can show enough self-respect to assemble
it correctly and tighten all of the bolts.
There's plenty of blame to spread around here: management and workers
both had a hand in killing the American auto industry.
"Franky Furter" <Frank@furter.com> wrote in message
news:11tdku0ooah4u6c@corp.supernews.com...
> Hmmmm...isnt $65k about the average wage in America nowadays? If you are
> making under $50k with 3 kids you are at the poverty level.
>
>
> <jismquiff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1138142710.343858.136720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> The mammoth troubles facing GM, Ford and their auto parts makers are
>> merely a symptom of the global leveling of manufacturing that has been
>> underway for some years.
>>
>> Stop and think. We're told this week that the average annual wage for
>> a Ford family production line worker is an astounding $65,000! Where
>> else in the world can an uneducated, ignorant, untalented, unskilled
>> slob who tightens bolts make anything approaching that figure?
>> Especially when working for a company that can't move its inventory of
>> unwanted products!
>>
>> At least in Germany, where auto workers' pay is nearly comparable to
>> their U.S. counterparts, those employees possess technical skills plus
>> a minimum high-school education.
>>
>> Of course, in South Korea, such workers make about 20 percent of the
>> $65, 000 the American schlubs '"earn." But the Koreans at least
>> possess real skills and a real education. And in China, $650 a year
>> is real good.
>>
>> So get used to less, beer-bellied Amer'cun slobs! The good old days
>> are never coming again - except for those with education and genuine
>> 21st century skills! Globalism is eatin' your lunch!
>>
>> Really no surprise.
>>
>
>
"stonej" <stonej@mail.lib.msu.edu> wrote in message
news:1138153134.361310.325090@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hmmmm...isnt $65k about the average wage in America nowadays?
>
> For a single worker? No, I think it is less than that.
>
>
> If you are
> making under $50k with 3 kids you are at the poverty level.
>
> There are a lot of people in that situation out there - Walmarts are
> all over the place :(
>
I think $65K US is a good wage. I don't think that is an "average wage",
I'm sure the average wage in the US is much lower.
Some of the other posters were also saying that line workers are unskilled.
I don't think that is a fair assumption.
Here is the "CYCLE" as I see it....
Union puts the screws to the auto makers
Auto Makers put the screws to the parts suppliers - need the same part but
cheaper every year
Parts makers have to make the same part CHEAPER
One million cars get recalled because of a failed part
Auto Makers can't put money into R&D to make a better product to compete
with Toyota/Honda
Auto Makers FINALLY put the screws BACK to the employees .... In the words
of Donald Trump "You're Fired!"
GMs solution is to bring MORE cars from Korea, hmmm, that's really gonna
help American Auto Workers.. yeah. Right. And those cars aren't really all
that great! The Chevy Aveo doesn't get nearly the same fuel mileage as the
Toyota Echo Hatchback. It isn't that much cheaper either.
GM and Ford needs to change their reputation to get consumers back into
their cars. Build good products, and build a new identity around those
products.
Toyota builds many boring cars (with the odd exception, like the Scion
brand). I'm not saying that's a bad thing (I've owned several of them), but
it's just showing how they can be successful at selling a-b cars that are
super reliable, and have a good image out there.
Basically, I'm trying to say, Unions really had a viable place in the
workplace many years ago. There are many successful companies who treat
their employees with respect and in turn have happy employees, oh, and those
companies aren't unionized. I'm not saying Unions are bad, but IMHO, maybe
they need to be revamped. In my eyes, Unions are like Bullies.. you pay
them off to protect your job, but in the end, you still get chopped.
Like I said, I think it's wrong to say that Line Workers are not skilled.
They are hard working people who do the same repetitive job over and over,
and I bet that is MUCH harder than it seems.
Just curious, what does WalMart pay their store managers?!? I bet it's
below $65K/year.
The real problem is that they get paid even when laid off. So if a plant is
closed there is very little savings for Ford and GM and in fact the workers
have no incentive to do a good job to keep a plant open.
<jismquiff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1138142710.343858.136720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> The mammoth troubles facing GM, Ford and their auto parts makers are
> merely a symptom of the global leveling of manufacturing that has been
> underway for some years.
>
> Stop and think. We're told this week that the average annual wage for
> a Ford family production line worker is an astounding $65,000! Where
> else in the world can an uneducated, ignorant, untalented, unskilled
> slob who tightens bolts make anything approaching that figure?
> Especially when working for a company that can't move its inventory of
> unwanted products!
>
> At least in Germany, where auto workers' pay is nearly comparable to
> their U.S. counterparts, those employees possess technical skills plus
> a minimum high-school education.
>
> Of course, in South Korea, such workers make about 20 percent of the
> $65, 000 the American schlubs '"earn." But the Koreans at least
> possess real skills and a real education. And in China, $650 a year
> is real good.
>
> So get used to less, beer-bellied Amer'cun slobs! The good old days
> are never coming again - except for those with education and genuine
> 21st century skills! Globalism is eatin' your lunch!
>
> Really no surprise.
>
"Chuck G." <nospam@nospam> wrote in message
news:voudnUFtp88ScEvenZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> 2005 HHS Poverty Guidelines
> Persons in
> Family Unit 48 Contiguous
> States and D.C. Alaska Hawaii
> 1 $ 9,570 $11,950 $11,010
> 2 12,830 16,030 14,760
> 3 16,090 20,110 18,510
> 4 19,350 24,190 22,260
> 5 22,610 28,270 26,010
> 6 25,870 32,350 29,760
> 7 29,130 36,430 33,510
> 8 32,390 40,510 37,260
> For each additional
> person, add 3,260 4,080 3,750
>
> SOURCE: Federal Register, Vol. 70, No. 33, February 18, 2005, pp.
> 8373-8375.
>
>
>
> http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/05poverty.shtml
Those are some unbelievably low numbers. One problem is the person making 15
k in NYC equates to a guy making 11 k in Sioux City, IA. The government
can't realistically think one set of numbers can apply to 48 States.
$65K... HAHA That's with EVERYTHING included into an estimated salaried
number, guy I USED to WORK for GM in a factory... and I'm telling you
from the horses MOUTH, ONLY the people that have been working there for
over 20+ YEARS make anywhere from 40-50K/yr and many of them that's
with TONS of overtime. $65K is an estimate with the WHOLE healthcare,
pension plain accounted for! And at the time way back when GM could
afford to pay out those types of packages, they had little competition.
They signed contracts with the workers and they SHOULD be honored. If
anyone should be losing their jobs and PAYING up are the upper
management execs that could have and DID for see all this competition
coming. Don't blame the worker to signing for benefits 20 or more years
ago and still expecting to COLLECT on it. If that busts up the corp,
then guess what - it's NOT their fault. It's the Exec's that OFFERED
them the package. I don't see many Execs making 100 of thousands
offering to take a nice salary cut? Cutting people at the bottom of the
corp is the easy way out and the easy and trivial way to duck
responsibility for past and present mismanagement. And the Corporate
Raiders and takeover specialist just LOVE when this happens. It makes
this quick and easy money: blame the lowly workers for accepting TOO
much PAY! haha should they REJECT a nice contract and get paid a
pittance for working VERY hard and in a very dangerous environment,
while execs and managers on ALL levels get paid VERY well and enjoy
equal or better health care packages? What a joke... more Top-down
responsibility ducking.
I know some people that make ~100K, but they
literally work 12-16hr days/365 including all holidays. And the ONLY
way that they CAN do this is having the TOP level seniority aka they've
worked there well over 20-30 years. Overtime accounts for a LOT of
people that earn in the 40K+ bracket. And ONLY people that have worked
uber long get scheduled high on the list of employees ASKED after every
shift if they WANT to work overtime... if not, they go home after the
usual 8hrs... Or sometimes you'll be required to work a Saturday, which
counts as time+half pay.
Again, it's a farce to think that everyone that works on the
assembly line is making ~65K. Not even close buddy. The white collar
managers make the bulk of the money. My 22year old foreman, who's daddy
was a high level engineer, was making ~$54K/yr and that's ONLY b/c he
was a foreman. No LINE worker is making more than a foreman on an
hourly
basis.
Please stop reading the sensationalized headlines from the mass
money making media, and do some googling to research what the ACTUAL
salaries and wages are for MOST of the employees. Also, you people need
to stop blaming the workers for getting paid whatever they can, and
blame the MANAGEMENT that signs the checks and negotiates the HORRIBLE
and unprofitable deals for parts and bulk production equipment. The
WORKER has little say in how much he/she makes, the management DOES.
I Just love the USA... 100's of millions of idiots blaming the common
worker and lower class for the upper class SELLING out their own
country for profit. The common worker has little control over the
direction of a company. Striking is about all they can do, IF they are
permitted to have a labor union, which is also corrupted by money and
power, like any other fallible human institution. Show a little
compassion, for the blue collar worker is NOT the one sending jobs over
seas for quick profit-&-run deals.... Good day!
jismquiff@yahoo.com wrote:
> The mammoth troubles facing GM, Ford and their auto parts makers are
> merely a symptom of the global leveling of manufacturing that has been
> underway for some years.
>
> Stop and think. We're told this week that the average annual wage for
> a Ford family production line worker is an astounding $65,000! Where
> else in the world can an uneducated, ignorant, untalented, unskilled
> slob who tightens bolts make anything approaching that figure?
> Especially when working for a company that can't move its inventory of
> unwanted products!
>
> At least in Germany, where auto workers' pay is nearly comparable to
> their U.S. counterparts, those employees possess technical skills plus
> a minimum high-school education.
>
> Of course, in South Korea, such workers make about 20 percent of the
> $65, 000 the American schlubs '"earn." But the Koreans at least
> possess real skills and a real education. And in China, $650 a year
> is real good.
>
> So get used to less, beer-bellied Amer'cun slobs! The good old days
> are never coming again - except for those with education and genuine
> 21st century skills! Globalism is eatin' your lunch!
>
> Really no surprise.
>
Oh well, times change. Nothing stays the same forever, nothing.
Toyota and Honda will soon be running and winning in NASCAR races.
"Moe" <"Moe"@BubbleLand.USA> wrote in message
news:CHFBf.2662$2o5.1353@dukeread11...
> jismquiff@yahoo.com wrote:
>> The mammoth troubles facing GM, Ford and their auto parts makers are
>> merely a symptom of the global leveling of manufacturing that has been
>> underway for some years.
>>
>> Stop and think. We're told this week that the average annual wage for
>> a Ford family production line worker is an astounding $65,000! Where
>> else in the world can an uneducated, ignorant, untalented, unskilled
>> slob who tightens bolts make anything approaching that figure?
>> Especially when working for a company that can't move its inventory of
>> unwanted products!
>>
>> At least in Germany, where auto workers' pay is nearly comparable to
>> their U.S. counterparts, those employees possess technical skills plus
>> a minimum high-school education.
>>
>> Of course, in South Korea, such workers make about 20 percent of the
>> $65, 000 the American schlubs '"earn." But the Koreans at least
>> possess real skills and a real education. And in China, $650 a year
>> is real good.
>>
>> So get used to less, beer-bellied Amer'cun slobs! The good old days
>> are never coming again - except for those with education and genuine
>> 21st century skills! Globalism is eatin' your lunch!
>>
>> Really no surprise.
>>
> Oh well, times change. Nothing stays the same forever, nothing. Toyota
> and Honda will soon be running and winning in NASCAR races.
That is not likely. Do you even know what NASCAR is?
>Stop and think. We're told this week that the average annual wage for
>a Ford family production line worker is an astounding $65,000! Where
>else in the world can an uneducated, ignorant, untalented, unskilled
>slob who tightens bolts make anything approaching that figure?
>Especially when working for a company that can't move its inventory of
>unwanted products!
The auto industry didn't have this problem until Chimps buddies at
Exxon got the price of oil so high that nobody could afford to drive
SUVs or big pickups anymore. Granted, there are a lot of ignorant,
knuckle dragging morons on Ford and GM assembly lines making $25.00 an
hour doing jobs the 16 year old counter girl at Dunkin Donuts could
easily do, but until gas got so high, they seemed able to handle their
high wages.
Something is beginning to break down in America that has not broken
down since the early 1930s.
> The mammoth troubles facing GM, Ford and their auto parts makers are
> merely a symptom of the global leveling of manufacturing that has been
> underway for some years.
It has nothing to do with "leveling of manufacturing". However, it is a
"symptom", caused by crude oil depletion & paked.
>
> Stop and think. We're told this week that the average annual wage for
> a Ford family production line worker is an astounding $65,000! Where
> else in the world can an uneducated, ignorant, untalented, unskilled
> slob who tightens bolts make anything approaching that figure?
> Especially when working for a company that can't move its inventory of
> unwanted products!
Most of these workers were "educated", although they are slob b/c they
watch television and worship conservative values.
> At least in Germany, where auto workers' pay is nearly comparable to
> their U.S. counterparts, those employees possess technical skills plus
> a minimum high-school education.
German's auto industry is going through same problem. Infact 25 plants
are shut down! As of 2002 there are not television maker in Germany.
This has nothing to do auto industry, but this goes to show where
industry is heading in Western & Central Europe.
> Of course, in South Korea, such workers make about 20 percent of the
> $65, 000 the American schlubs '"earn." But the Koreans at least
> possess real skills and a real education. And in China, $650 a year
> is real good.
In China a person can buy a house in $10,000. American $650 are about
100,000 yuan for an averge chinese. Don't be fooled by currency
conversion.
> So get used to less, beer-bellied Amer'cun slobs! The good old days
> are never coming again - except for those with education and genuine
> 21st century skills! Globalism is eatin' your lunch!
Although, I agree with you in part. However, educated people will sufer
the same faith, because it is becoming very hard to fuel all the cars
on the road at this very moment. Fueling the cars which are being built
in plant is next to impossible in upcoming future. Strangly, SUV maybe
the key to saving auto industry as far as auto industry is concern.
> Really no surprise.
Yes, it is no surprise to those who know about peak oil.
Linear Mode
