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$65,000 A Year? Bye, U.S. Auto Workers!

13K views 154 replies 0 participants last post by  dizzy 
G
#1 ·
The mammoth troubles facing GM, Ford and their auto parts makers are
merely a symptom of the global leveling of manufacturing that has been
underway for some years.

Stop and think. We're told this week that the average annual wage for
a Ford family production line worker is an astounding $65,000! Where
else in the world can an uneducated, ignorant, untalented, unskilled
slob who tightens bolts make anything approaching that figure?
Especially when working for a company that can't move its inventory of
unwanted products!

At least in Germany, where auto workers' pay is nearly comparable to
their U.S. counterparts, those employees possess technical skills plus
a minimum high-school education.

Of course, in South Korea, such workers make about 20 percent of the
$65, 000 the American schlubs '"earn." But the Koreans at least
possess real skills and a real education. And in China, $650 a year
is real good.

So get used to less, beer-bellied Amer'cun slobs! The good old days
are never coming again - except for those with education and genuine
21st century skills! Globalism is eatin' your lunch!

Really no surprise.
 
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G
#77 ·
Re: $65,000 A Year? Bye, U.S. Auto Workers!

Sean Elkins wrote:
> In article <1138237931.543338.113430@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Sean Elkins wrote:
> > > In article <1138197244.456346.93500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> > > "Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > 65,000 a year should be minimum wage in the usa. That would be $32.50
> > > > an hour.
> > > >
> > > > taken a look at your electric bill lately?
> > >
> > > You know Richard, there are times when I read some of your posts and
> > > almost see a glimmer of rationality in them----> then you go and reset
> > > yourself to zero by posting something as complete insane as this.

> >
> > Think outside of the box and soundbyte-based-groupthink Republicans are
> > famous for. Use your noggin.
> >
> > I never said it was reasonable in practice, I used 'should'. In order
> > for that to work we'd have to stop relying on middle eastern oil and
> > asian slave labor. But free-trade-pact happy, greedy, fat, crooked
> > Republicans will have none of that.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Do you understand nothing of basic economics?

> >
> > I understand basic fascism as well.

>
> Wow, you managed to incorporate name calling, unwarranted labeling,
> stereotyping and hate-filled pre-programmed partisan mudslinging all
> into a single response.


And you just managed to say a whole bunch of nothing.

Which part of what I said is false?

I don't hate neocons. I just feel better when they're on the front
battle lines fighting wrong-headed wars, and in prison, where they
belong. And.... you're right, I am completely stereotyping
Republicans. The whole lot of them. A bunch of crooked pussies.
Either through their own actions or through complicity.

>
> When someone swings as far to the extreme as this response it dilutes
> the reasonable things they otherwise say.


Oh you're mr. moderate. No room for that in a climate where thousands
of American Citizens are being sent to their deaths at young ages while
those in power are facing felony charges. Maybe you're willing to be a
doormat for the excesses of our current leadership... but that's your
choice. Don't blame me.

>
> It would appear that you're just the opposite but equal side of the
> right-wing extremists you so often deride in this forum.


Appearances can, of course, be deceiving.

>
> Oh, and if you can't raise a kid on $50K you might consider a visit to
> Appalachia to see how it's done for 1/3 of that amount.


OK my man... and the economy of Appalachia resembles the economy of the
fifth largest metropolitan area (BW) in the Unites States in what way
again? Ahh typical neocon psychosis... only look at the part that
confirms what the voices in your head (and the O'Reilly Factor) are
telling you.
 
G
#78 ·
Re: $65,000 A Year? Bye, U.S. Auto Workers!

badgolferman wrote:
> Sean Elkins, 1/25/2006,11:18:18 PM, wrote:
>
> > In article <1138237931.543338.113430@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> > "Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Sean Elkins wrote:
> > > > In article <1138197244.456346.93500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > "Learning Richard" <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > 65,000 a year should be minimum wage in the usa. That would be
> > > > > $32.50 an hour.
> > > > >
> > > > > taken a look at your electric bill lately?
> > > >
> > > > You know Richard, there are times when I read some of your posts
> > > > and almost see a glimmer of rationality in them----> then you go
> > > > and reset yourself to zero by posting something as complete
> > > > insane as this.
> > >
> > > Think outside of the box and soundbyte-based-groupthink Republicans
> > > are famous for. Use your noggin.
> > >
> > > I never said it was reasonable in practice, I used 'should'. In
> > > order for that to work we'd have to stop relying on middle eastern
> > > oil and asian slave labor. But free-trade-pact happy, greedy, fat,
> > > crooked Republicans will have none of that.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Do you understand nothing of basic economics?
> > >
> > > I understand basic fascism as well.

> >
> > Wow, you managed to incorporate name calling, unwarranted labeling,
> > stereotyping and hate-filled pre-programmed partisan mudslinging all
> > into a single response.
> >
> > When someone swings as far to the extreme as this response it dilutes
> > the reasonable things they otherwise say.
> >
> > It would appear that you're just the opposite but equal side of the
> > right-wing extremists you so often deride in this forum.
> >
> > Oh, and if you can't raise a kid on $50K you might consider a visit
> > to Appalachia to see how it's done for 1/3 of that amount.

>


Stop setting the followups dipshit. You afraid of your words being
x-posted? Hmmm?

> You are rather intelligent in your judgement. Now you see what we have
> to deal with constantly. It's clear bridges have been burned all
> around him. Learning Richard is fast becoming an island, especially
> one FAR out there.


personal attacks again bgm? You really need to crack that big book.
 
G
#79 ·
Re: $65,000 A Year? Bye, U.S. Auto Workers!

RSCamaro wrote:
> On 25 Jan 2006 08:48:04 -0800, "Learning Richard"
> <learningrichard@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> >We could swing that without an extra dime of expense if we cut down on
> >things like YOUR (Republican) elected officials accepting bribes and
> >payoffs from corrupt lobbyists.

>
> They are all corrupt! It doesn't matter which party they are
> affiliated with. From the start of the term to the end its all about
> getting re-elected. If you think otherwise then you have a rather
> large set of blinders over your eyes.


Who is in power in Washington right now?

I speak, as Don Rummy likes to say, of "the facts on the ground".

The corruption on Capitol Hill AND in the White House is unprecedented
and unmatched in US history. And, Republicans control Capitol Hill and
the White House.

Do the math, chief.
 
G
#80 ·
Re: $65,000 A Year? Bye, U.S. Auto Workers!

badgolferman wrote:
> Learning Richard, 1/25/2006, 8:54:04 AM,
> <1138197244.456346.93500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > 65,000 a year should be minimum wage in the usa. That would be $32.50
> > an hour.
> >
> > taken a look at your electric bill lately?

>
> If minimum wage = $32.50
> Then loaf of bread = $16.75


Yeah right... and if the USA unemployment rate falls below 6%, the
inflation genie will be let out of the bottle.

You still wear wide ties and flared polyester too?
 
G
#81 ·
Re: $65,000 A Year? Bye, U.S. Auto Workers!

badgolferman wrote:
> Learning Richard, 1/25/2006, 8:54:04 AM,
> <1138197244.456346.93500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > 65,000 a year should be minimum wage in the usa. That would be $32.50
> > an hour.
> >
> > taken a look at your electric bill lately?

>
> If minimum wage = $32.50
> Then loaf of bread = $16.75


Yeah right... and if the USA unemployment rate falls below 6%, the
inflation genie will be let out of the bottle.

You still wear wide ties and flared polyester too?
 
G
#82 ·
Re: $65,000 A Year? Bye, U.S. Auto Workers!

What kind of car is this?
Who is supposed to buy it?

"The car takes 21 seconds from 0 to 100 "

"The main problem with the engine is the smoky exhaust"

"The Chevy is not a particularly advanced car"

"The Chevys body panels are made of Duroplast"



> Mike Hunter wrote:
> > Wait and see what happen when Toyota gets the new Chinese plant up and
> > running LOL
> >
> >
> > mike hunt

>
>
> Will that be this new Chevy built by Vietnamese?
>
> I was wondering were you were going to try to sell them
> I doubt that the Chinese will buy it
>
> The 26th Annual tour of Super Chevy Shows starts at
> > >>>>>Bradenton Motorsports Park February 10-11-12 with the Tremec Car Show
> > >>>>>series, Bracket Race, Manufacturer's Midway, Swap Meet, and Car Corral.
> > >>>
> > >>>>Excitement galore as Jessie Harris in the Queen of Diamonds Jet Dragster
> > >>>>versus Lou Pereia's Terminator Jet Dragster in a 300 mph battle of the
> > >>>>sexes and super showman Bob Hall thrills the fans in the Airborne
> > >>>>Express Chevy Astro Van Wheelstander
> > >>>
> > >>>>The wildest machines in drag racing Nitro Coupes feauturing New York's
> > >>>>Mike Swinarski, Chicago's Randy Adler, Canada's Bruce Boland and many
> > >>>>other Super Chevy Show stars will compete.
> > >>>
> > >>>>Bracket racers will have the opportunity to Test & Tune on Friday from
> > >>>>noon to 5 pm and all GM makes and models can compete in the bracket
> > >>>>race.
> > >>>
> > >>>>Gates open Friday at 10 am, Saturday and Sunday at 8 am. Nitro Coupes
> > >>>>and Jets blast off at 1pm Saturday and Sunday. Come to Bradenton
> > >>>>February 10-11-12 for Super Chevy Show fun and excitement.
> > >>>>GM Performance Division continues sponsorship of
> > >>>>Super Chevy Shows
> > >>>>AutoStar Productions is proud to announce that GM Performance Division
> > >>>>has
> > >>>>The new super Chevy is an automobile produced by GM
> > >>>>Despite its poor performance and smoky two-stroke engine the name Chevy
> > >>>>means something
> > >>>
> > >>>the cars are often referred to as the Cheffi or Chefi, pronounced with
> > >>>a short e
> > >>>600cc Chevy P601L.
> > >>>600cc Chevy P602L.
> > >>>
> > >>>>Super Chevy, the Chevy 500, also known as the Chevy P 50, and the Chevy
> > >>>>601 (or Chevy P 60 series)
> > >>>>The engine for both the 500 and 601 is a small two-stroke engine with
> > >>>>two cylinders, giving the vehicle modest performance.
> > >>>>It deliveres 25 horsepower (19 kW) from a 600 cc displacement.
> > >>>>The car takes 21 seconds from 0 to 100 km/h and the top speed is 112
> > >>>>km/h.
> > >>>>The main problem with the engine is the smoky exhaust and the pollution
> > >>>>it produces
> > >>>>The Chevys body panels are made of Duroplast, a form of plastic
> > >>>>containing resin strengthened by wool or cotton
> > >>>>This helps GM avoid expensive steel, but does not provide much crash
> > >>>>protection
> > >>>
> > >>>although in crash tests it has actually proved to be superior to some
> > >>>modern small hatchbacks
> > >>>
> > >>>>The new super Chevy is the second car to use Duroplast,
> > >>>
> > >>>after the "pre-Chevy" P70 model
> > >>>
> > >>>>Originally planned as a three-wheeled motorcycle
> > >>>>The decision to build a four-wheeled car came late in the planning
> > >>>>process
> > >>>>The name Chevy was chosen in a internal contest
> > >>>>Previous motorcycle production at Cadillac inspired this new Chefi
> > >>>>The Chevy is not a particularly advanced car
> > >>>>Later model will generally use cleaner and more efficient four-stroke
> > >>>>engines
> > >>>>The Chevys designers expect production to extend to 2007 at the latest
> > >>>
> > >>>designers and engineers created a series of more sophisticated
> > >>>prototypes
> > >>>that are intended to extend the Chefi
> > >>>
> > >>>>Several of these can be seen at the super Chevy show
> > >>>>However, each proposal for a new model has been rejected by the
> > >>>>leadership for reasons of cost
> > >>>>As a result, the Chevy remained in production unchanged
> > >>>>The automobiles will be continually updated and exported
> > >>>>The Chevys production method, which is extremely labor-intensive will
> > >>>>remain unchanged
> > >>>
> > >>>and much of the work will to be carried out by Vietnamese guest workers
> > >>>
> > >>>>A smaller version of the engine replaces the elderly two-stroke engine
> > >>>>The model, known as the Chevy 1,1 also has minor improvements to the
> > >>>>brake and signal lights
> > >>>
> > >>>a revised grille and replaces the coach spring-suspended chassis with
> > >>>one using struts
> > >>>
> > >>>>However the time it enters production has already been agreed to
> > >>>>The inefficient, labor-intensive production line will be kept open only
> > >>>>because of government subsidies
> > >>>>Demand for GM cars has plummeted as residents can now buy Japanese cars
> > >>>>Chevys well-known in the News reports inaccurately describes them
> > >>>
> > >>>as having cardboard bodies
> > >>>
> > >>>>Buy a Chevy for as little as a few dollars, and many will be given away
> > >>>>at the show
> > >>>>Later when as they become better liked prices will be increased but they
> > >>>>will remain very cheap cars
> > >>>
> > >>

>
>
> > "Dan J.S." <me@hyperx.com> wrote in message
> > news:11tfjbc532ggj99@news.supernews.com...
> > >
> > > <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:1138209456.922042.12890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > >>
> > >> Dan J.S. wrote:
> > >>> <jismquiff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > >>> news:1138142710.343858.136720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > >>> > The mammoth troubles facing GM, Ford and their auto parts makers are
> > >>> > merely a symptom of the global leveling of manufacturing that has been
> > >>> > underway for some years.
> > >>> >
> > >>> > Stop and think. We're told this week that the average annual wage for
> > >>> > a Ford family production line worker is an astounding $65,000! Where
> > >>> > else in the world can an uneducated, ignorant, untalented, unskilled
> > >>> > slob who tightens bolts make anything approaching that figure?
> > >>> > Especially when working for a company that can't move its inventory of
> > >>> > unwanted products!
> > >>> >
> > >>> > At least in Germany, where auto workers' pay is nearly comparable to
> > >>> > their U.S. counterparts, those employees possess technical skills plus
> > >>> > a minimum high-school education.
> > >>> >
> > >>> > Of course, in South Korea, such workers make about 20 percent of the
> > >>> > $65, 000 the American schlubs '"earn." But the Koreans at least
> > >>> > possess real skills and a real education. And in China, $650 a year
> > >>> > is real good.
> > >>> >
> > >>> > So get used to less, beer-bellied Amer'cun slobs! The good old days
> > >>> > are never coming again - except for those with education and genuine
> > >>> > 21st century skills! Globalism is eatin' your lunch!
> > >>> >
> > >>> > Really no surprise.
> > >>> >
> > >>>
> > >>> Funny how you think $65k is a lot of money. You must not get out much.
> > >>
> > >> We are talking about wages competing with workers in China
> > >> If they get $65.000 in US and $650 in China for the same job then is no
> > >> wonder that management is moving jobs to China
> > >>
> > >
> > > Yeah but look at cars made in Germany - quality is not much better.
> > >
> > > Plus - who is buying Chinese made cars?
> > >
 
G
#83 ·
Re: $65,000 A Year? Bye, U.S. Auto Workers!

Median US income was $43,300.00 per the US Census in 2003

The Big 3 pay enormous wage and benefit costs compared to labor costs with
foreign auto makers. The weak US dollar is like a magnet for foreign auto
makers to sell their products in the US.



"stonej" <stonej@mail.lib.msu.edu> wrote in message
news:1138153134.361310.325090@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hmmmm...isnt $65k about the average wage in America nowadays?
>
> For a single worker? No, I think it is less than that.
>
>
> If you are
> making under $50k with 3 kids you are at the poverty level.
>
> There are a lot of people in that situation out there - Walmarts are
> all over the place :(
>
 
G
#84 ·
Re: $65,000 A Year? Bye, U.S. Auto Workers!

> Oh, and if you can't raise a kid on $50K you might consider a visit to
> Appalachia to see how it's done for 1/3 of that amount.


Geese, My daughters college tuition is $11k per semester. Where the hell did
you get that number ?
You can't live on Wal-Mart wages unless you call a cardboard box home.
 
G
#85 ·
Re: $65,000 A Year? Bye, U.S. Auto Workers!

"M.R.S." <nospam@nospamthankyou.com> wrote in message
news:fUBBf.15852$ve.287833@news20.bellglobal.com...
>
> "stonej" <stonej@mail.lib.msu.edu> wrote in message
> news:1138153134.361310.325090@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Hmmmm...isnt $65k about the average wage in America nowadays?
>>
>> For a single worker? No, I think it is less than that.
>>
>>
>> If you are
>> making under $50k with 3 kids you are at the poverty level.
>>
>> There are a lot of people in that situation out there - Walmarts are
>> all over the place :(
>>

>
> I think $65K US is a good wage. I don't think that is an "average wage",
> I'm sure the average wage in the US is much lower.
>
> Some of the other posters were also saying that line workers are
> unskilled. I don't think that is a fair assumption.
>
>
> Here is the "CYCLE" as I see it....
>
> Union puts the screws to the auto makers
> Auto Makers put the screws to the parts suppliers - need the same part but
> cheaper every year
> Parts makers have to make the same part CHEAPER
> One million cars get recalled because of a failed part
> Auto Makers can't put money into R&D to make a better product to compete
> with Toyota/Honda
> Auto Makers FINALLY put the screws BACK to the employees .... In the
> words of Donald Trump "You're Fired!"
>
>
> GMs solution is to bring MORE cars from Korea, hmmm, that's really gonna
> help American Auto Workers.. yeah. Right. And those cars aren't really
> all that great! The Chevy Aveo doesn't get nearly the same fuel mileage
> as the Toyota Echo Hatchback. It isn't that much cheaper either.


GM is farming out their Research and Developement to China and Asia.


> GM and Ford needs to change their reputation to get consumers back into
> their cars. Build good products, and build a new identity around those
> products.


Lower prices will bring the customers into the dealership. Proof was lasrt
summers record auto sales when the Big 3 offered emp;loyee prices on their
products.

>
> Toyota builds many boring cars (with the odd exception, like the Scion
> brand). I'm not saying that's a bad thing (I've owned several of them),
> but it's just showing how they can be successful at selling a-b cars that
> are super reliable, and have a good image out there.
>
>
> Basically, I'm trying to say, Unions really had a viable place in the
> workplace many years ago. There are many successful companies who treat
> their employees with respect and in turn have happy employees, oh, and
> those companies aren't unionized. I'm not saying Unions are bad, but
> IMHO, maybe they need to be revamped. In my eyes, Unions are like
> Bullies.. you pay them off to protect your job, but in the end, you still
> get chopped.
>
> Like I said, I think it's wrong to say that Line Workers are not skilled.
> They are hard working people who do the same repetitive job over and over,
> and I bet that is MUCH harder than it seems.
>
> Just curious, what does WalMart pay their store managers?!? I bet it's
> below $65K/year.
>
 
G
#86 ·
Re: $65,000 A Year? Bye, U.S. Auto Workers!

Steve Stone wrote:
> > Oh, and if you can't raise a kid on $50K you might consider a visit to
> > Appalachia to see how it's done for 1/3 of that amount.

>
> Geese, My daughters college tuition is $11k per semester. Where the hell did
> you get that number ?
> You can't live on Wal-Mart wages unless you call a cardboard box home.


Put it in perspective. This guy Sean is the type of person who shoots
deer and then runs after them until they fall.
 
G
#87 ·
Re: $65,000 A Year? Bye, U.S. Auto Workers!

"JayR" <jryder.10@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138162544.819053.94040@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> $65K... HAHA That's with EVERYTHING included into an estimated salaried
> number, guy I USED to WORK for GM in a factory... and I'm telling you
> from the horses MOUTH, ONLY the people that have been working there for
> over 20+ YEARS make anywhere from 40-50K/yr and many of them that's
> with TONS of overtime. $65K is an estimate with the WHOLE healthcare,
> pension plain accounted for! And at the time way back when GM could
> afford to pay out those types of packages, they had little competition.
> They signed contracts with the workers and they SHOULD be honored.


The contracts should be honored, however, if the economics change and
customers do not purchase products, then how is it possible for the company
to afford to pay the contracts? The company is able to adapt to current
market conditions, but the unions are not willing to budge. The problem is
with the union.

> If anyone should be losing their jobs and PAYING up are the upper
> management execs that could have and DID for see all this competition
> coming. Don't blame the worker to signing for benefits 20 or more years
> ago and still expecting to COLLECT on it. If that busts up the corp,
> then guess what - it's NOT their fault. It's the Exec's that OFFERED
> them the package. I don't see many Execs making 100 of thousands
> offering to take a nice salary cut? Cutting people at the bottom of the
> corp is the easy way out and the easy and trivial way to duck
> responsibility for past and present mismanagement. And the Corporate
> Raiders and takeover specialist just LOVE when this happens. It makes
> this quick and easy money: blame the lowly workers for accepting TOO
> much PAY! haha should they REJECT a nice contract and get paid a
> pittance for working VERY hard and in a very dangerous environment,
> while execs and managers on ALL levels get paid VERY well and enjoy
> equal or better health care packages? What a joke... more Top-down
> responsibility ducking.


No one is blaming the worker for accepting too much money. A contract is
agreed upon by both sides. Ford is cutting back because they are employing
a workforce to produce at close to 100% capacity, when actual production is
in the 80% range. Result is lost profits to pay the workers. This is a
risk any employee takes working for any company, including being self
employeed.

> I know some people that make ~100K, but they
> literally work 12-16hr days/365 including all holidays. And the ONLY
> way that they CAN do this is having the TOP level seniority aka they've
> worked there well over 20-30 years. Overtime accounts for a LOT of
> people that earn in the 40K+ bracket. And ONLY people that have worked
> uber long get scheduled high on the list of employees ASKED after every
> shift if they WANT to work overtime... if not, they go home after the
> usual 8hrs... Or sometimes you'll be required to work a Saturday, which
> counts as time+half pay.
> Again, it's a farce to think that everyone that works on the
> assembly line is making ~65K. Not even close buddy. The white collar
> managers make the bulk of the money. My 22year old foreman, who's daddy
> was a high level engineer, was making ~$54K/yr and that's ONLY b/c he
> was a foreman. No LINE worker is making more than a foreman on an
> hourly
> basis.
> Please stop reading the sensationalized headlines from the mass
> money making media, and do some googling to research what the ACTUAL
> salaries and wages are for MOST of the employees. Also, you people need
> to stop blaming the workers for getting paid whatever they can, and
> blame the MANAGEMENT that signs the checks and negotiates the HORRIBLE
> and unprofitable deals for parts and bulk production equipment. The
> WORKER has little say in how much he/she makes, the management DOES.
>
> I Just love the USA... 100's of millions of idiots blaming the common
> worker and lower class for the upper class SELLING out their own
> country for profit. The common worker has little control over the
> direction of a company. Striking is about all they can do, IF they are
> permitted to have a labor union, which is also corrupted by money and
> power, like any other fallible human institution. Show a little
> compassion, for the blue collar worker is NOT the one sending jobs over
> seas for quick profit-&-run deals.... Good day!
>
 
G
#88 ·
Re: $65,000 A Year? Bye, U.S. Auto Workers!

Steve Stone, 1/26/2006, 8:29:16 AM, <M84Cf.793$qg.140@news01.roc.ny>
wrote:

> > Oh, and if you can't raise a kid on $50K you might consider a visit
> > to Appalachia to see how it's done for 1/3 of that amount.

>
> Geese, My daughters college tuition is $11k per semester. Where the
> hell did you get that number ? You can't live on Wal-Mart wages
> unless you call a cardboard box home.


That is a choice you have made. Most people don't go to $44K schools.
If WalMart is paying $50K then I will be standing in line applying for
a job there soon.

--
"A zebra does not change its spots." ~ Al Gore
 
G
#89 ·
Re: $65,000 A Year? Bye, U.S. Auto Workers!

badgolferman wrote:
> Steve Stone, 1/26/2006, 8:29:16 AM, <M84Cf.793$qg.140@news01.roc.ny>
> wrote:
>
> > > Oh, and if you can't raise a kid on $50K you might consider a visit
> > > to Appalachia to see how it's done for 1/3 of that amount.

> >
> > Geese, My daughters college tuition is $11k per semester. Where the
> > hell did you get that number ? You can't live on Wal-Mart wages
> > unless you call a cardboard box home.

>
> That is a choice you have made. Most people don't go to $44K schools.


SO now there's four semesters in a college year?

And a lot of people DO go to schools that charge around $22,000 per
year, easily when you count supplies, fees, food, lodging, and all
that.

> If WalMart is paying $50K then I will be standing in line applying for
> a job there soon.


I won't comment on your salary... suffice it to say that life in
beautiful downtown Hampton, VA is cheaper than a lot of metro areas in
the USA.
 
G
#90 ·
Re: $65,000 A Year? Bye, U.S. Auto Workers!

<Acurajustin1978@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138220821.633027.228460@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:
> > That may be your opinion but more American buy GM and Ford vehicles than
> > they buy any other. They must think the one they buy is as good or

better
> > than the brand you buy.
> >
> >
> > mike hunt

>
>
> Yeah, and most Americans have to bring their Mexican built American
> cars in for service every other week. What's your point? Any savings
> in the initial price of the car is negated by constant repairs.


This is of course total BS. I've owned both US and Foreign models and there
is very little difference in reliability. One of the least reliable cars I
ever owned was a Toyota. The most reliable vehicle I have ever owned was a
Ford. I currently own three Fords ('92 F150, '03 Expedtion, '04
Thunderbird). Only the F150 has required out of warranty repairs (one
starter, one alternator, one fule pump check valve). Total cost for all
these repairs is less than $500. Not bad for a 14 year old vehicle that has
been beat to death on a farm. The Expedition required a couple of in
warranty repairs (drivers window, front axle moan fix). The Thunderbird was
back to the dealer to have an additive added to transmission fluid (a
preventive additive that the fluid manufacturer left out). My parents also
own three Ford ('00 Grand Marquis, '05 Freestyle, '99 Ranger). None of them
have ever been back to the dealer for any reasons (I did replace the IAC on
the Ranger to address a moaning noise at idle, and the Freestyle will
eventually need to go in to have the fuel tank straps replaced at Ford's
cost). My younger sister has a '01 Escape. She had to have the coolant level
sensor replaced under warranty and the cruise control cable detached, but
that is it. So for seven Fords and somewhere around half a million miles,
the total cost of repairs is less than $700. Given that the tpyical Japanese
car costs thousands more than a comaprable American car, I don't see how I
could ever justify buying one becasue of reliability.

Ed
 
G
#91 ·
Re: $65,000 A Year? Bye, U.S. Auto Workers!

"JayR" <jryder.10@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138216301.350909.316800@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Oh man... this is great! Blaming people in a free country for NOT
> buying lower quality built cars. WHY would I want to buy a car that has
> lower enforced quality control standards that cost the same as a

<SNIP>

Hey Jay! Ever heard of a paragraph?

par·a·graph Pronunciation Key (pr-grf)
n.
A distinct division of written or printed matter that begins on a new,
usually indented line, consists of one or more sentences, and typically
deals with a single thought or topic or quotes one speaker's continuous
words.
In grammar is a group of sentences that encloses the main idea and 3
supporting sentences.

The main reason for paragraph and puncuation use is for eas of reading...

"In addition, this excerpt has been broken into shorter paragraphs for ease
of Internet reading."

"The longer paragraphs have been split for ease of reading and some very
long sentences broken apart for the same reason. "
 
G
#92 ·
Re: $65,000 A Year? Bye, U.S. Auto Workers!

C. E. White, 1/26/2006, 10:57:57 AM, <43d8f24e$1@kcnews01> wrote:

> One of the least reliable cars I
> ever owned was a Toyota.


What year was that vehicle?
 
G
#93 ·
For people trying to raise a family on just that income, $65K is poverty
level.


jismquiff@yahoo.com wrote:
> The mammoth troubles facing GM, Ford and their auto parts makers are
> merely a symptom of the global leveling of manufacturing that has been
> underway for some years.
>
> Stop and think. We're told this week that the average annual wage for
> a Ford family production line worker is an astounding $65,000! Where
> else in the world can an uneducated, ignorant, untalented, unskilled
> slob who tightens bolts make anything approaching that figure?
> Especially when working for a company that can't move its inventory of
> unwanted products!
>
> At least in Germany, where auto workers' pay is nearly comparable to
> their U.S. counterparts, those employees possess technical skills plus
> a minimum high-school education.
>
> Of course, in South Korea, such workers make about 20 percent of the
> $65, 000 the American schlubs '"earn." But the Koreans at least
> possess real skills and a real education. And in China, $650 a year
> is real good.
>
> So get used to less, beer-bellied Amer'cun slobs! The good old days
> are never coming again - except for those with education and genuine
> 21st century skills! Globalism is eatin' your lunch!
>
> Really no surprise.
>
 
G
#95 ·
On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 09:07:58 -0800, John Bailo <jabailo@texeme.com>
wrote:

>
>For people trying to raise a family on just that income, $65K is poverty
>level.


Poverty level?
Perhaps a family of 15 people it would be.

In my world, $65K per year is more than enough for even a family of
four people. I do not know how you come up with $65K not being enough?

Also, $65K per year is ABOVE both the Average and Median income of
Americans. Exactly how does this make $65K per year anywhere near
poverty level?

There are many white collar workers who, in their whole lifetime of
working years, never reach $65K per year. Yes, I know that sounds
impossible to believe but it is true.

A great number of doctors make just over double the car worker cited.

Do you, or anyone else, think the skills of an assembly line worker is
worth Half that of a Doctor?

If so, then this country needs a cleansing.




>jismquiff@yahoo.com wrote:
>> The mammoth troubles facing GM, Ford and their auto parts makers are
>> merely a symptom of the global leveling of manufacturing that has been
>> underway for some years.
>>
>> Stop and think. We're told this week that the average annual wage for
>> a Ford family production line worker is an astounding $65,000! Where
>> else in the world can an uneducated, ignorant, untalented, unskilled
>> slob who tightens bolts make anything approaching that figure?
>> Especially when working for a company that can't move its inventory of
>> unwanted products!
>>
>> At least in Germany, where auto workers' pay is nearly comparable to
>> their U.S. counterparts, those employees possess technical skills plus
>> a minimum high-school education.
>>
>> Of course, in South Korea, such workers make about 20 percent of the
>> $65, 000 the American schlubs '"earn." But the Koreans at least
>> possess real skills and a real education. And in China, $650 a year
>> is real good.
>>
>> So get used to less, beer-bellied Amer'cun slobs! The good old days
>> are never coming again - except for those with education and genuine
>> 21st century skills! Globalism is eatin' your lunch!
>>
>> Really no surprise.
>>


************************************
If you wait by the river long enough your enemies will float by.
http://www.dubyareport.net/
http://www.dubyareport.net/forum/
 
G
#96 ·
Re: $65,000 A Year? Bye, U.S. Auto Workers!

Can't prove that by me. I haven't had a bad car in over 25 years, foreign
or domestic. Perhaps you do not do the maintenance. If you think foreign
cars don't break down you are in for a rude awakening. ;)


<Acurajustin1978@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138220821.633027.228460@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>> That may be your opinion but more American buy GM and Ford vehicles than
>> they buy any other. They must think the one they buy is as good or
>> better
>> than the brand you buy.
>>
>>
>> mike hunt

>
>
> Yeah, and most Americans have to bring their Mexican built American
> cars in for service every other week. What's your point? Any savings
> in the initial price of the car is negated by constant repairs.
>
 
G
#97 ·
Re: $65,000 A Year? Bye, U.S. Auto Workers!

Looks like DIZZY is using one of his aliases again. We know its you DIZZY
LOL


mike hunt


"dizzy" <dizzy@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.01.26.01.14.40.183318@nospam.invalid...
> Top posting troll Mike Hunter wrote:
>
>> That may be their editorial opinion but you can't prove it by me. The
>> buying public is who make the ultimate decision as to which is better,
>> when
>> they buy what they buy.

>
> In your other post, you complain that Americans buy foreign cars
> that they perceive to be a better value. Idiot.
>
 
G
#98 ·
Re: $65,000 A Year? Bye, U.S. Auto Workers!

Top-posting troll Mike Hunter wrote:

> Can't prove that by me.


Can't prove what by you, top poster?

> I haven't had a bad car in over 25 years, foreign
> or domestic. Perhaps you do not do the maintenance.


This, from someone who trade-in every year. What an idiot.
 
G
#99 ·
On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 09:07:58 -0800, John Bailo wrote:

> For people trying to raise a family on just that income, $65K is poverty
> level.


Oh, it's the Bailo twit, making an ass of himself as usual.
 
G
#100 ·
Re: $65,000 A Year? Bye, U.S. Auto Workers!

On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:08:13 -0800, Learning Richard wrote:

> dizzy wrote:
>>
>> > If you are
>> > making under $50k with 3 kids you are at the poverty level.

>>
>> Wrong again.

>
> not true. Try raising even one kid on 50k. Almost impossible without
> those dreaded entitlement programs.


B.S. $50k is plenty to live a decent life for a small family. It sure
would not be "poverty".
 
G
#101 ·
Re: $65,000 A Year? Bye, U.S. Auto Workers!

Worldwide demand has driven up the price of oil. The problem is this. Once
the forgein companies built aassembly plants in the US, they were able to
deliver cars at the same rate at the American companies.

Competition inproves quality and lowers prices, but the American companies
cannot lower prices and make a profit if they have higher labor costs.

The majority, if not all of the forgein manufacturers use less expensive,
non-union labor.

US car companies have to cut costs in order to lower prices, in order to
move vehicles.

Labor costs make up the majority of any company's costs.

Something has to give.

"Christopher Helms" <Chrishelms132@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1138190282.709516.56060@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >Stop and think. We're told this week that the average annual wage for
>>a Ford family production line worker is an astounding $65,000! Where
>>else in the world can an uneducated, ignorant, untalented, unskilled
>>slob who tightens bolts make anything approaching that figure?
>>Especially when working for a company that can't move its inventory of
>>unwanted products!

>
> The auto industry didn't have this problem until Chimps buddies at
> Exxon got the price of oil so high that nobody could afford to drive
> SUVs or big pickups anymore. Granted, there are a lot of ignorant,
> knuckle dragging morons on Ford and GM assembly lines making $25.00 an
> hour doing jobs the 16 year old counter girl at Dunkin Donuts could
> easily do, but until gas got so high, they seemed able to handle their
> high wages.
>
> Something is beginning to break down in America that has not broken
> down since the early 1930s.
>
 
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