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<gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138209456.922042.12890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Dan J.S. wrote:
>> <jismquiff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1138142710.343858.136720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> > The mammoth troubles facing GM, Ford and their auto parts makers are
>> > merely a symptom of the global leveling of manufacturing that has been
>> > underway for some years.
>> >
>> > Stop and think. We're told this week that the average annual wage for
>> > a Ford family production line worker is an astounding $65,000! Where
>> > else in the world can an uneducated, ignorant, untalented, unskilled
>> > slob who tightens bolts make anything approaching that figure?
>> > Especially when working for a company that can't move its inventory of
>> > unwanted products!
>> >
>> > At least in Germany, where auto workers' pay is nearly comparable to
>> > their U.S. counterparts, those employees possess technical skills plus
>> > a minimum high-school education.
>> >
>> > Of course, in South Korea, such workers make about 20 percent of the
>> > $65, 000 the American schlubs '"earn." But the Koreans at least
>> > possess real skills and a real education. And in China, $650 a year
>> > is real good.
>> >
>> > So get used to less, beer-bellied Amer'cun slobs! The good old days
>> > are never coming again - except for those with education and genuine
>> > 21st century skills! Globalism is eatin' your lunch!
>> >
>> > Really no surprise.
>> >
>>
>> Funny how you think $65k is a lot of money. You must not get out much.
>
> We are talking about wages competing with workers in China
> If they get $65.000 in US and $650 in China for the same job then is no
> wonder that management is moving jobs to China
>
Yeah but look at cars made in Germany - quality is not much better.
Oh man... this is great! Blaming people in a free country for NOT
buying lower quality built cars. WHY would I want to buy a car that has
lower enforced quality control standards that cost the same as a
foreign car, which has higher standards and better overall resale value
(just to name a few)? Just b/c it's "American" built? Ha, that tired
rhetoric has LONG been sold out. Unfortunately, again these monolithic
giants are STILL trying to use the same old 1950's model of "Made in
the USA" standards and patriotism that NO longer apply. The model is
out dated and frankly ignorant in these times. Again, blaming the blue
collar and lesser workers is ridiculous. And as usual, I don't here
anyone complaining about the well overpaid management/execs that get to
jump ship and float off on silver/golden parachutes. BLAME the ape
workers!
Speaking of quality control... GM, Ford and the like COULD and can
build much higher quality produced vehicles, if they so choose. But
being that they are giants that wield a big club, their model is based
on profit from mass production, not tight quality control standards. I
know, I've SEEN how the cars are built... Hell I have help build them,
but when you're NOT the quality control agent/manager, you have no say
in what is glued Vs riveted Vs seem welded instead. Take ford for
example; many of the EUROPEAN fords are VERY well made and last decades
longer than their American built counter parts. The Merkur was built to
compete with BMW and Audi in the USA, but they had did not have the
proper show room model to display the much high improved standards, and
dumped them off to Lincoln dealers, who had little clue as to what they
were selling, other than some "Euro-Ford." I happen to own a Merkur and
they are very solid cars. Much more so than what is even being produced
today by Ford. A shame, but again it's NOT the worker's fault- it is a
MANAGEMENT mistake. But seeing as people in this country have been
inbred into believing that only the supposed "ignorant worker," is to
blame, I can see why management/execs and the like are invisible to
proper criticism. And as someone also pointed out, EVERYONE that works
for GM HAS to be referred & given a DNA based drug screen. You will NOT
be hired w/o being referred 1st. So the misconception of junkies and
ogres working the line and doing jobs a 16yr old girl could do are
hardly applicable. And furthermore, many of these jobs are in a very
hostile and dangerous environment where the typical said "idiot" would
get him/herself KILLED and or severely injured. Make no mistake, not
everyone that works for GM and the like are rocket-scientists, but they
are far from what most would depict as said " ignorant factor worker."
With that said...I hate to inform some of you, but many of those
workers, say the ones that have been working there for at least
15years: STARTED working there with little skill, and b/c GM could
afford to pay so well, many of them earned degrees and other kinds of
skilled certifications outside of work; but none of these jobs could
match the pay and benefits package of GM at that time. Again these
people had/have families to feed and quitting their SECURE and high
paying GM job with an uber health benefits package was NOT and for
some, still is not an option. My father happens to work for GM and has
2 degrees and a Masters, I have 2 degrees and numerous computer certs.
We are hardly "ignorant." The persons that like to blindly assume and
point out said ignorance, more than show their own in doing so.
Unfortunately the mounting classism in this country is appalling.
Even people in the same "class" or income bracket (since income doesn't
always indicate an individual's amount of "class") are stupid
enough to be turned against their follow man/woman in a condescending
attempt to distance themselves, as IF you are any better than said
worker. Ha, think LOGICALLY about what you are attempting to allude, by
pointing the finger and turning a blind eye to people that have
sustained many of the small towns and cities in this formerly "free
country." I say formerly b/c about 20-30% of it is now owned by
debtor-default to China, Japan and some other Euro/Asian countries.
Just WHO are you people to point fingers at anyone? Persons with REAL
class/tact are actually informed BEFORE they post and wouldn't attempt
to look down on another for purposes of belittlement and pure malice.
It's unfortunate that so many people these days, waste valuable time
trying to falsely separate themselves from others, as if doing so makes
you any better? Get real! I've wasted plenty of time even obliging
these Socratic taunts... I doubt that any of this will change anyone's
point of view, but again let it be said that blaming HARD working men
and women, for the past and present mismanagement (again there's that
word - management!) of a former auto-industry leaders seeming demise,
is hardly informed nor worthy of attention at all. Good day.
Wait and see what happen when Toyota gets the new Chinese plant up and
running LOL
mike hunt
"Dan J.S." <me@hyperx.com> wrote in message
news:11tfjbc532ggj99@news.supernews.com...
>
> <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1138209456.922042.12890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Dan J.S. wrote:
>>> <jismquiff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1138142710.343858.136720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>>> > The mammoth troubles facing GM, Ford and their auto parts makers are
>>> > merely a symptom of the global leveling of manufacturing that has been
>>> > underway for some years.
>>> >
>>> > Stop and think. We're told this week that the average annual wage for
>>> > a Ford family production line worker is an astounding $65,000! Where
>>> > else in the world can an uneducated, ignorant, untalented, unskilled
>>> > slob who tightens bolts make anything approaching that figure?
>>> > Especially when working for a company that can't move its inventory of
>>> > unwanted products!
>>> >
>>> > At least in Germany, where auto workers' pay is nearly comparable to
>>> > their U.S. counterparts, those employees possess technical skills plus
>>> > a minimum high-school education.
>>> >
>>> > Of course, in South Korea, such workers make about 20 percent of the
>>> > $65, 000 the American schlubs '"earn." But the Koreans at least
>>> > possess real skills and a real education. And in China, $650 a year
>>> > is real good.
>>> >
>>> > So get used to less, beer-bellied Amer'cun slobs! The good old days
>>> > are never coming again - except for those with education and genuine
>>> > 21st century skills! Globalism is eatin' your lunch!
>>> >
>>> > Really no surprise.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Funny how you think $65k is a lot of money. You must not get out much.
>>
>> We are talking about wages competing with workers in China
>> If they get $65.000 in US and $650 in China for the same job then is no
>> wonder that management is moving jobs to China
>>
>
> Yeah but look at cars made in Germany - quality is not much better.
>
> Plus - who is buying Chinese made cars?
>
That may be your opinion but more American buy GM and Ford vehicles than
they buy any other. They must think the one they buy is as good or better
than the brand you buy.
mike hunt
"JayR" <jryder.10@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138216301.350909.316800@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Oh man... this is great! Blaming people in a free country for NOT
> buying lower quality built cars. WHY would I want to buy a car that has
> lower enforced quality control standards that cost the same as a
> foreign car, which has higher standards and better overall resale value
> (just to name a few)?
Mike Hunter wrote:
> Wait and see what happen when Toyota gets the new Chinese plant up and
> running LOL
>
>
> mike hunt
Will that be this new Chevy built by Vietnamese?
I was wondering were you were going to try to sell them
I doubt that the Chinese will buy it
The 26th Annual tour of Super Chevy Shows starts at
> >>>>>Bradenton Motorsports Park February 10-11-12 with the Tremec Car Show
> >>>>>series, Bracket Race, Manufacturer's Midway, Swap Meet, and Car Corral.
> >>>
> >>>>Excitement galore as Jessie Harris in the Queen of Diamonds Jet Dragster
> >>>>versus Lou Pereia's Terminator Jet Dragster in a 300 mph battle of the
> >>>>sexes and super showman Bob Hall thrills the fans in the Airborne
> >>>>Express Chevy Astro Van Wheelstander
> >>>
> >>>>The wildest machines in drag racing Nitro Coupes feauturing New York's
> >>>>Mike Swinarski, Chicago's Randy Adler, Canada's Bruce Boland and many
> >>>>other Super Chevy Show stars will compete.
> >>>
> >>>>Bracket racers will have the opportunity to Test & Tune on Friday from
> >>>>noon to 5 pm and all GM makes and models can compete in the bracket
> >>>>race.
> >>>
> >>>>Gates open Friday at 10 am, Saturday and Sunday at 8 am. Nitro Coupes
> >>>>and Jets blast off at 1pm Saturday and Sunday. Come to Bradenton
> >>>>February 10-11-12 for Super Chevy Show fun and excitement.
> >>>>GM Performance Division continues sponsorship of
> >>>>Super Chevy Shows
> >>>>AutoStar Productions is proud to announce that GM Performance Division
> >>>>has
> >>>>The new super Chevy is an automobile produced by GM
> >>>>Despite its poor performance and smoky two-stroke engine the name Chevy
> >>>>means something
> >>>
> >>>the cars are often referred to as the Cheffi or Chefi, pronounced with
> >>>a short e
> >>>600cc Chevy P601L.
> >>>600cc Chevy P602L.
> >>>
> >>>>Super Chevy, the Chevy 500, also known as the Chevy P 50, and the Chevy
> >>>>601 (or Chevy P 60 series)
> >>>>The engine for both the 500 and 601 is a small two-stroke engine with
> >>>>two cylinders, giving the vehicle modest performance.
> >>>>It deliveres 25 horsepower (19 kW) from a 600 cc displacement.
> >>>>The car takes 21 seconds from 0 to 100 km/h and the top speed is 112
> >>>>km/h.
> >>>>The main problem with the engine is the smoky exhaust and the pollution
> >>>>it produces
> >>>>The Chevys body panels are made of Duroplast, a form of plastic
> >>>>containing resin strengthened by wool or cotton
> >>>>This helps GM avoid expensive steel, but does not provide much crash
> >>>>protection
> >>>
> >>>although in crash tests it has actually proved to be superior to some
> >>>modern small hatchbacks
> >>>
> >>>>The new super Chevy is the second car to use Duroplast,
> >>>
> >>>after the "pre-Chevy" P70 model
> >>>
> >>>>Originally planned as a three-wheeled motorcycle
> >>>>The decision to build a four-wheeled car came late in the planning
> >>>>process
> >>>>The name Chevy was chosen in a internal contest
> >>>>Previous motorcycle production at Cadillac inspired this new Chefi
> >>>>The Chevy is not a particularly advanced car
> >>>>Later model will generally use cleaner and more efficient four-stroke
> >>>>engines
> >>>>The Chevys designers expect production to extend to 2007 at the latest
> >>>
> >>>designers and engineers created a series of more sophisticated
> >>>prototypes
> >>>that are intended to extend the Chefi
> >>>
> >>>>Several of these can be seen at the super Chevy show
> >>>>However, each proposal for a new model has been rejected by the
> >>>>leadership for reasons of cost
> >>>>As a result, the Chevy remained in production unchanged
> >>>>The automobiles will be continually updated and exported
> >>>>The Chevys production method, which is extremely labor-intensive will
> >>>>remain unchanged
> >>>
> >>>and much of the work will to be carried out by Vietnamese guest workers
> >>>
> >>>>A smaller version of the engine replaces the elderly two-stroke engine
> >>>>The model, known as the Chevy 1,1 also has minor improvements to the
> >>>>brake and signal lights
> >>>
> >>>a revised grille and replaces the coach spring-suspended chassis with
> >>>one using struts
> >>>
> >>>>However the time it enters production has already been agreed to
> >>>>The inefficient, labor-intensive production line will be kept open only
> >>>>because of government subsidies
> >>>>Demand for GM cars has plummeted as residents can now buy Japanese cars
> >>>>Chevys well-known in the News reports inaccurately describes them
> >>>
> >>>as having cardboard bodies
> >>>
> >>>>Buy a Chevy for as little as a few dollars, and many will be given away
> >>>>at the show
> >>>>Later when as they become better liked prices will be increased but they
> >>>>will remain very cheap cars
> >>>
> >>
> "Dan J.S." <me@hyperx.com> wrote in message
> news:11tfjbc532ggj99@news.supernews.com...
> >
> > <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1138209456.922042.12890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >>
> >> Dan J.S. wrote:
> >>> <jismquiff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>> news:1138142710.343858.136720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> >>> > The mammoth troubles facing GM, Ford and their auto parts makers are
> >>> > merely a symptom of the global leveling of manufacturing that has been
> >>> > underway for some years.
> >>> >
> >>> > Stop and think. We're told this week that the average annual wage for
> >>> > a Ford family production line worker is an astounding $65,000! Where
> >>> > else in the world can an uneducated, ignorant, untalented, unskilled
> >>> > slob who tightens bolts make anything approaching that figure?
> >>> > Especially when working for a company that can't move its inventory of
> >>> > unwanted products!
> >>> >
> >>> > At least in Germany, where auto workers' pay is nearly comparable to
> >>> > their U.S. counterparts, those employees possess technical skills plus
> >>> > a minimum high-school education.
> >>> >
> >>> > Of course, in South Korea, such workers make about 20 percent of the
> >>> > $65, 000 the American schlubs '"earn." But the Koreans at least
> >>> > possess real skills and a real education. And in China, $650 a year
> >>> > is real good.
> >>> >
> >>> > So get used to less, beer-bellied Amer'cun slobs! The good old days
> >>> > are never coming again - except for those with education and genuine
> >>> > 21st century skills! Globalism is eatin' your lunch!
> >>> >
> >>> > Really no surprise.
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>> Funny how you think $65k is a lot of money. You must not get out much.
> >>
> >> We are talking about wages competing with workers in China
> >> If they get $65.000 in US and $650 in China for the same job then is no
> >> wonder that management is moving jobs to China
> >>
> >
> > Yeah but look at cars made in Germany - quality is not much better.
> >
> > Plus - who is buying Chinese made cars?
> >
No it will be the Camry built in China. I don't know why you think the
Chinese will not buy them, the Camry is a good car. Toyota will just sell it
cheaper in China, like they do now in third world counties. The Camry is
over priced and underpowered for my taste but Americans are buying them in
good numbers. I think the kind of American that would buy a car, that is
currently only assembled in the US of mostly imported parts by a foreign
corporation that pays no US federal corporate income taxes, like the Camry
will still buy them when they are made in China.. Those buyers that buy all
of the Toyotas that are made in Japan have no concern for their own
countries economy. Why do you think they would they be concerned about
Japanese economy over the Chinese economy? ;)
mike hunt
<gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138217722.581971.240170@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>> Wait and see what happen when Toyota gets the new Chinese plant up and
>> running LOL
>>
>>
>> mike hunt
>
>
> Will that be this new Chevy built by Vietnamese?
>
> I was wondering were you were going to try to sell them
> I doubt that the Chinese will buy it
Mike Hunter wrote:
> That may be your opinion but more American buy GM and Ford vehicles than
> they buy any other. They must think the one they buy is as good or better
> than the brand you buy.
>
>
> mike hunt
Yeah, and most Americans have to bring their Mexican built American
cars in for service every other week. What's your point? Any savings
in the initial price of the car is negated by constant repairs.
Quantity doesn`t make it for quality.
Ameica used to, in a remote past,to build the best
products,Electronics,Autos,etc,that was before the advent of the liberals
and their derrotist and treasonous nature,created by their abuse of LSD.
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:SBydnU0hX5NQBUreUSdV9g@ptd.net...
> The American auto makers still sell more vehicles than all of the import
> brands combined.
>
>
> mike hunt
>
>
> "Sean Elkins" <sean_elkins@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:sean_elkins-7E1872.21072124012006@news.iglou.com...
>> In article <dr6glk$kfs$3@blackhelicopter.databasix.com>,
>> Gary L. Burnore <gburnore@databasix.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:00:22 -0500, "Crusader" <white@xyz.com> top
>>> posted like an ignorant ****ing moron and wrote:
>>>
>>> >Isn`t Ford known as Fix Or Repair Daily?
>>> >That`s what they get.
>>>
>>> They? The workers get canned because the management gave them crappy
>>> cars to build? Heh.
>>
>> It's not that simple: if someone hands you a crappy design to build, at
>> least you can show enough self-respect to assemble
>> it correctly and tighten all of the bolts.
>>
>> There's plenty of blame to spread around here: management and workers
>> both had a hand in killing the American auto industry.
>
>
On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 07:59:13 GMT, "351CJ" <351CJ@msn.com> wrote:
>
>"Moe" <"Moe"@BubbleLand.USA> wrote in message
>news:CHFBf.2662$2o5.1353@dukeread11...
>> jismquiff@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Oh well, times change. Nothing stays the same forever, nothing. Toyota
>> and Honda will soon be running and winning in NASCAR races.
>
>That is not likely. Do you even know what NASCAR is?
>
Toyota already runs in the truck series and NASCAR announced they will run in
the Busch and Cup series in 07.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant.
Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography
On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 07:59:13 GMT, "351CJ" <351CJ@msn.com> wrote:
>> Oh well, times change. Nothing stays the same forever, nothing. Toyota
>> and Honda will soon be running and winning in NASCAR races.
>
>That is not likely. Do you even know what NASCAR is?
(excerpt)
Toyota to race Cup, Busch beginning in '07 (January 23, 2006)
NASCAR and Toyota announced Monday the manufacturer's plans to expand
its racing program by competing in the Nextel Cup and Busch series
starting in 2007, fielding the Camry model.
Linear Mode
