Learning Richard

badgolferman wrote:
> Learning Richard, 1/25/2006, 8:54:04 AM,
> <1138197244.456346.93500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > 65,000 a year should be minimum wage in the usa. That would be $32.50
> > an hour.
> >
> > taken a look at your electric bill lately?
>
> If minimum wage = $32.50
> Then loaf of bread = $16.75

Yeah right... and if the USA unemployment rate falls below 6%, the
inflation genie will be let out of the bottle.

You still wear wide ties and flared polyester too?

 

gosinn@gmail.com

What kind of car is this?
Who is supposed to buy it?

"The car takes 21 seconds from 0 to 100 "

"The main problem with the engine is the smoky exhaust"

"The Chevy is not a particularly advanced car"

"The Chevys body panels are made of Duroplast"



> Mike Hunter wrote:
> > Wait and see what happen when Toyota gets the new Chinese plant up and
> > running LOL
> >
> >
> > mike hunt
>
>
> Will that be this new Chevy built by Vietnamese?
>
> I was wondering were you were going to try to sell them
> I doubt that the Chinese will buy it
>
> The 26th Annual tour of Super Chevy Shows starts at
> > >>>>>Bradenton Motorsports Park February 10-11-12 with the Tremec Car Show
> > >>>>>series, Bracket Race, Manufacturer's Midway, Swap Meet, and Car Corral.
> > >>>
> > >>>>Excitement galore as Jessie Harris in the Queen of Diamonds Jet Dragster
> > >>>>versus Lou Pereia's Terminator Jet Dragster in a 300 mph battle of the
> > >>>>sexes and super showman Bob Hall thrills the fans in the Airborne
> > >>>>Express Chevy Astro Van Wheelstander
> > >>>
> > >>>>The wildest machines in drag racing Nitro Coupes feauturing New York's
> > >>>>Mike Swinarski, Chicago's Randy Adler, Canada's Bruce Boland and many
> > >>>>other Super Chevy Show stars will compete.
> > >>>
> > >>>>Bracket racers will have the opportunity to Test & Tune on Friday from
> > >>>>noon to 5 pm and all GM makes and models can compete in the bracket
> > >>>>race.
> > >>>
> > >>>>Gates open Friday at 10 am, Saturday and Sunday at 8 am. Nitro Coupes
> > >>>>and Jets blast off at 1pm Saturday and Sunday. Come to Bradenton
> > >>>>February 10-11-12 for Super Chevy Show fun and excitement.
> > >>>>GM Performance Division continues sponsorship of
> > >>>>Super Chevy Shows
> > >>>>AutoStar Productions is proud to announce that GM Performance Division
> > >>>>has
> > >>>>The new super Chevy is an automobile produced by GM
> > >>>>Despite its poor performance and smoky two-stroke engine the name Chevy
> > >>>>means something
> > >>>
> > >>>the cars are often referred to as the Cheffi or Chefi, pronounced with
> > >>>a short e
> > >>>600cc Chevy P601L.
> > >>>600cc Chevy P602L.
> > >>>
> > >>>>Super Chevy, the Chevy 500, also known as the Chevy P 50, and the Chevy
> > >>>>601 (or Chevy P 60 series)
> > >>>>The engine for both the 500 and 601 is a small two-stroke engine with
> > >>>>two cylinders, giving the vehicle modest performance.
> > >>>>It deliveres 25 horsepower (19 kW) from a 600 cc displacement.
> > >>>>The car takes 21 seconds from 0 to 100 km/h and the top speed is 112
> > >>>>km/h.
> > >>>>The main problem with the engine is the smoky exhaust and the pollution
> > >>>>it produces
> > >>>>The Chevys body panels are made of Duroplast, a form of plastic
> > >>>>containing resin strengthened by wool or cotton
> > >>>>This helps GM avoid expensive steel, but does not provide much crash
> > >>>>protection
> > >>>
> > >>>although in crash tests it has actually proved to be superior to some
> > >>>modern small hatchbacks
> > >>>
> > >>>>The new super Chevy is the second car to use Duroplast,
> > >>>
> > >>>after the "pre-Chevy" P70 model
> > >>>
> > >>>>Originally planned as a three-wheeled motorcycle
> > >>>>The decision to build a four-wheeled car came late in the planning
> > >>>>process
> > >>>>The name Chevy was chosen in a internal contest
> > >>>>Previous motorcycle production at Cadillac inspired this new Chefi
> > >>>>The Chevy is not a particularly advanced car
> > >>>>Later model will generally use cleaner and more efficient four-stroke
> > >>>>engines
> > >>>>The Chevys designers expect production to extend to 2007 at the latest
> > >>>
> > >>>designers and engineers created a series of more sophisticated
> > >>>prototypes
> > >>>that are intended to extend the Chefi
> > >>>
> > >>>>Several of these can be seen at the super Chevy show
> > >>>>However, each proposal for a new model has been rejected by the
> > >>>>leadership for reasons of cost
> > >>>>As a result, the Chevy remained in production unchanged
> > >>>>The automobiles will be continually updated and exported
> > >>>>The Chevys production method, which is extremely labor-intensive will
> > >>>>remain unchanged
> > >>>
> > >>>and much of the work will to be carried out by Vietnamese guest workers
> > >>>
> > >>>>A smaller version of the engine replaces the elderly two-stroke engine
> > >>>>The model, known as the Chevy 1,1 also has minor improvements to the
> > >>>>brake and signal lights
> > >>>
> > >>>a revised grille and replaces the coach spring-suspended chassis with
> > >>>one using struts
> > >>>
> > >>>>However the time it enters production has already been agreed to
> > >>>>The inefficient, labor-intensive production line will be kept open only
> > >>>>because of government subsidies
> > >>>>Demand for GM cars has plummeted as residents can now buy Japanese cars
> > >>>>Chevys well-known in the News reports inaccurately describes them
> > >>>
> > >>>as having cardboard bodies
> > >>>
> > >>>>Buy a Chevy for as little as a few dollars, and many will be given away
> > >>>>at the show
> > >>>>Later when as they become better liked prices will be increased but they
> > >>>>will remain very cheap cars
> > >>>
> > >>
>
>
> > "Dan J.S." <me@hyperx.com> wrote in message
> > news:11tfjbc532ggj99@news.supernews.com...
> > >
> > > <gosinn@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:1138209456.922042.12890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > >>
> > >> Dan J.S. wrote:
> > >>> <jismquiff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > >>> news:1138142710.343858.136720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > >>> > The mammoth troubles facing GM, Ford and their auto parts makers are
> > >>> > merely a symptom of the global leveling of manufacturing that has been
> > >>> > underway for some years.
> > >>> >
> > >>> > Stop and think. We're told this week that the average annual wage for
> > >>> > a Ford family production line worker is an astounding $65,000! Where
> > >>> > else in the world can an uneducated, ignorant, untalented, unskilled
> > >>> > slob who tightens bolts make anything approaching that figure?
> > >>> > Especially when working for a company that can't move its inventory of
> > >>> > unwanted products!
> > >>> >
> > >>> > At least in Germany, where auto workers' pay is nearly comparable to
> > >>> > their U.S. counterparts, those employees possess technical skills plus
> > >>> > a minimum high-school education.
> > >>> >
> > >>> > Of course, in South Korea, such workers make about 20 percent of the
> > >>> > $65, 000 the American schlubs '"earn." But the Koreans at least
> > >>> > possess real skills and a real education. And in China, $650 a year
> > >>> > is real good.
> > >>> >
> > >>> > So get used to less, beer-bellied Amer'cun slobs! The good old days
> > >>> > are never coming again - except for those with education and genuine
> > >>> > 21st century skills! Globalism is eatin' your lunch!
> > >>> >
> > >>> > Really no surprise.
> > >>> >
> > >>>
> > >>> Funny how you think $65k is a lot of money. You must not get out much.
> > >>
> > >> We are talking about wages competing with workers in China
> > >> If they get $65.000 in US and $650 in China for the same job then is no
> > >> wonder that management is moving jobs to China
> > >>
> > >
> > > Yeah but look at cars made in Germany - quality is not much better.
> > >
> > > Plus - who is buying Chinese made cars?
> > >

Frank from Deeeetroit

Median US income was $43,300.00 per the US Census in 2003

The Big 3 pay enormous wage and benefit costs compared to labor costs with
foreign auto makers. The weak US dollar is like a magnet for foreign auto
makers to sell their products in the US.



"stonej" <stonej@mail.lib.msu.edu> wrote in message
news:1138153134.361310.325090@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hmmmm...isnt $65k about the average wage in America nowadays?
>
> For a single worker? No, I think it is less than that.
>
>
> If you are
> making under $50k with 3 kids you are at the poverty level.
>
> There are a lot of people in that situation out there - Walmarts are
> all over the place :(
>

Steve Stone

> Oh, and if you can't raise a kid on $50K you might consider a visit to
> Appalachia to see how it's done for 1/3 of that amount.

Geese, My daughters college tuition is $11k per semester. Where the hell did
you get that number ?
You can't live on Wal-Mart wages unless you call a cardboard box home.

Frank from Deeeetroit

"M.R.S." <nospam@nospamthankyou.com> wrote in message
news:fUBBf.15852$ve.287833@news20.bellglobal.com...
>
> "stonej" <stonej@mail.lib.msu.edu> wrote in message
> news:1138153134.361310.325090@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Hmmmm...isnt $65k about the average wage in America nowadays?
>>
>> For a single worker? No, I think it is less than that.
>>
>>
>> If you are
>> making under $50k with 3 kids you are at the poverty level.
>>
>> There are a lot of people in that situation out there - Walmarts are
>> all over the place :(
>>
>
> I think $65K US is a good wage. I don't think that is an "average wage",
> I'm sure the average wage in the US is much lower.
>
> Some of the other posters were also saying that line workers are
> unskilled. I don't think that is a fair assumption.
>
>
> Here is the "CYCLE" as I see it....
>
> Union puts the screws to the auto makers
> Auto Makers put the screws to the parts suppliers - need the same part but
> cheaper every year
> Parts makers have to make the same part CHEAPER
> One million cars get recalled because of a failed part
> Auto Makers can't put money into R&D to make a better product to compete
> with Toyota/Honda
> Auto Makers FINALLY put the screws BACK to the employees .... In the
> words of Donald Trump "You're Fired!"
>
>
> GMs solution is to bring MORE cars from Korea, hmmm, that's really gonna
> help American Auto Workers.. yeah. Right. And those cars aren't really
> all that great! The Chevy Aveo doesn't get nearly the same fuel mileage
> as the Toyota Echo Hatchback. It isn't that much cheaper either.

GM is farming out their Research and Developement to China and Asia.


> GM and Ford needs to change their reputation to get consumers back into
> their cars. Build good products, and build a new identity around those
> products.

Lower prices will bring the customers into the dealership. Proof was lasrt
summers record auto sales when the Big 3 offered emp;loyee prices on their
products.

>
> Toyota builds many boring cars (with the odd exception, like the Scion
> brand). I'm not saying that's a bad thing (I've owned several of them),
> but it's just showing how they can be successful at selling a-b cars that
> are super reliable, and have a good image out there.
>
>
> Basically, I'm trying to say, Unions really had a viable place in the
> workplace many years ago. There are many successful companies who treat
> their employees with respect and in turn have happy employees, oh, and
> those companies aren't unionized. I'm not saying Unions are bad, but
> IMHO, maybe they need to be revamped. In my eyes, Unions are like
> Bullies.. you pay them off to protect your job, but in the end, you still
> get chopped.
>
> Like I said, I think it's wrong to say that Line Workers are not skilled.
> They are hard working people who do the same repetitive job over and over,
> and I bet that is MUCH harder than it seems.
>
> Just curious, what does WalMart pay their store managers?!? I bet it's
> below $65K/year.
>

Learning Richard

Steve Stone wrote:
> > Oh, and if you can't raise a kid on $50K you might consider a visit to
> > Appalachia to see how it's done for 1/3 of that amount.
>
> Geese, My daughters college tuition is $11k per semester. Where the hell did
> you get that number ?
> You can't live on Wal-Mart wages unless you call a cardboard box home.

Put it in perspective. This guy Sean is the type of person who shoots
deer and then runs after them until they fall.

Frank from Deeeetroit

"JayR" <jryder.10@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138162544.819053.94040@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> $65K... HAHA That's with EVERYTHING included into an estimated salaried
> number, guy I USED to WORK for GM in a factory... and I'm telling you
> from the horses MOUTH, ONLY the people that have been working there for
> over 20+ YEARS make anywhere from 40-50K/yr and many of them that's
> with TONS of overtime. $65K is an estimate with the WHOLE healthcare,
> pension plain accounted for! And at the time way back when GM could
> afford to pay out those types of packages, they had little competition.
> They signed contracts with the workers and they SHOULD be honored.

The contracts should be honored, however, if the economics change and
customers do not purchase products, then how is it possible for the company
to afford to pay the contracts? The company is able to adapt to current
market conditions, but the unions are not willing to budge. The problem is
with the union.

> If anyone should be losing their jobs and PAYING up are the upper
> management execs that could have and DID for see all this competition
> coming. Don't blame the worker to signing for benefits 20 or more years
> ago and still expecting to COLLECT on it. If that busts up the corp,
> then guess what - it's NOT their fault. It's the Exec's that OFFERED
> them the package. I don't see many Execs making 100 of thousands
> offering to take a nice salary cut? Cutting people at the bottom of the
> corp is the easy way out and the easy and trivial way to duck
> responsibility for past and present mismanagement. And the Corporate
> Raiders and takeover specialist just LOVE when this happens. It makes
> this quick and easy money: blame the lowly workers for accepting TOO
> much PAY! haha should they REJECT a nice contract and get paid a
> pittance for working VERY hard and in a very dangerous environment,
> while execs and managers on ALL levels get paid VERY well and enjoy
> equal or better health care packages? What a joke... more Top-down
> responsibility ducking.

No one is blaming the worker for accepting too much money. A contract is
agreed upon by both sides. Ford is cutting back because they are employing
a workforce to produce at close to 100% capacity, when actual production is
in the 80% range. Result is lost profits to pay the workers. This is a
risk any employee takes working for any company, including being self
employeed.

> I know some people that make ~100K, but they
> literally work 12-16hr days/365 including all holidays. And the ONLY
> way that they CAN do this is having the TOP level seniority aka they've
> worked there well over 20-30 years. Overtime accounts for a LOT of
> people that earn in the 40K+ bracket. And ONLY people that have worked
> uber long get scheduled high on the list of employees ASKED after every
> shift if they WANT to work overtime... if not, they go home after the
> usual 8hrs... Or sometimes you'll be required to work a Saturday, which
> counts as time+half pay.
> Again, it's a farce to think that everyone that works on the
> assembly line is making ~65K. Not even close buddy. The white collar
> managers make the bulk of the money. My 22year old foreman, who's daddy
> was a high level engineer, was making ~$54K/yr and that's ONLY b/c he
> was a foreman. No LINE worker is making more than a foreman on an
> hourly
> basis.
> Please stop reading the sensationalized headlines from the mass
> money making media, and do some googling to research what the ACTUAL
> salaries and wages are for MOST of the employees. Also, you people need
> to stop blaming the workers for getting paid whatever they can, and
> blame the MANAGEMENT that signs the checks and negotiates the HORRIBLE
> and unprofitable deals for parts and bulk production equipment. The
> WORKER has little say in how much he/she makes, the management DOES.
>
> I Just love the USA... 100's of millions of idiots blaming the common
> worker and lower class for the upper class SELLING out their own
> country for profit. The common worker has little control over the
> direction of a company. Striking is about all they can do, IF they are
> permitted to have a labor union, which is also corrupted by money and
> power, like any other fallible human institution. Show a little
> compassion, for the blue collar worker is NOT the one sending jobs over
> seas for quick profit-&-run deals.... Good day!
>

badgolferman

Steve Stone, 1/26/2006, 8:29:16 AM, <M84Cf.793$qg.140@news01.roc.ny>
wrote:

> > Oh, and if you can't raise a kid on $50K you might consider a visit
> > to Appalachia to see how it's done for 1/3 of that amount.
>
> Geese, My daughters college tuition is $11k per semester. Where the
> hell did you get that number ? You can't live on Wal-Mart wages
> unless you call a cardboard box home.

That is a choice you have made. Most people don't go to $44K schools.
If WalMart is paying $50K then I will be standing in line applying for
a job there soon.

--
"A zebra does not change its spots." ~ Al Gore

Learning Richard

badgolferman wrote:
> Steve Stone, 1/26/2006, 8:29:16 AM, <M84Cf.793$qg.140@news01.roc.ny>
> wrote:
>
> > > Oh, and if you can't raise a kid on $50K you might consider a visit
> > > to Appalachia to see how it's done for 1/3 of that amount.
> >
> > Geese, My daughters college tuition is $11k per semester. Where the
> > hell did you get that number ? You can't live on Wal-Mart wages
> > unless you call a cardboard box home.
>
> That is a choice you have made. Most people don't go to $44K schools.

SO now there's four semesters in a college year?

And a lot of people DO go to schools that charge around $22,000 per
year, easily when you count supplies, fees, food, lodging, and all
that.

> If WalMart is paying $50K then I will be standing in line applying for
> a job there soon.

I won't comment on your salary... suffice it to say that life in
beautiful downtown Hampton, VA is cheaper than a lot of metro areas in
the USA.

C. E. White

<Acurajustin1978@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138220821.633027.228460@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:
> > That may be your opinion but more American buy GM and Ford vehicles than
> > they buy any other. They must think the one they buy is as good or
better
> > than the brand you buy.
> >
> >
> > mike hunt
>
>
> Yeah, and most Americans have to bring their Mexican built American
> cars in for service every other week. What's your point? Any savings
> in the initial price of the car is negated by constant repairs.

This is of course total BS. I've owned both US and Foreign models and there
is very little difference in reliability. One of the least reliable cars I
ever owned was a Toyota. The most reliable vehicle I have ever owned was a
Ford. I currently own three Fords ('92 F150, '03 Expedtion, '04
Thunderbird). Only the F150 has required out of warranty repairs (one
starter, one alternator, one fule pump check valve). Total cost for all
these repairs is less than $500. Not bad for a 14 year old vehicle that has
been beat to death on a farm. The Expedition required a couple of in
warranty repairs (drivers window, front axle moan fix). The Thunderbird was
back to the dealer to have an additive added to transmission fluid (a
preventive additive that the fluid manufacturer left out). My parents also
own three Ford ('00 Grand Marquis, '05 Freestyle, '99 Ranger). None of them
have ever been back to the dealer for any reasons (I did replace the IAC on
the Ranger to address a moaning noise at idle, and the Freestyle will
eventually need to go in to have the fuel tank straps replaced at Ford's
cost). My younger sister has a '01 Escape. She had to have the coolant level
sensor replaced under warranty and the cruise control cable detached, but
that is it. So for seven Fords and somewhere around half a million miles,
the total cost of repairs is less than $700. Given that the tpyical Japanese
car costs thousands more than a comaprable American car, I don't see how I
could ever justify buying one becasue of reliability.

Ed