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Old 11-27-2005, 12:01   #1 (permalink)
jimmithewrench
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84 f150 start circut problem

new starter,relay,ignition switch,key switch,batt cables even to the
starter i hook up the battery and it still engages the starter on it's
own.i'm lost,i checked eveything HELP!!!!

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Old 11-27-2005, 13:01   #2 (permalink)
Rick
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Re: 84 f150 start circut problem


"jimmithewrench" <jimmi1@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:097ad0b5a06b3e9a5a158ce3655a2417@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...
> new starter,relay,ignition switch,key switch,batt cables even to the
> starter i hook up the battery and it still engages the starter on

it's
> own.i'm lost,i checked eveything HELP!!!!
>


Pull the small wire off the starter relay ("S" terminal, if so marked)
and see what happens.

That wire should only be hot with the ignition switch in the "start"
position...


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Old 11-27-2005, 14:01   #3 (permalink)
jimmithewrench
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Re: 84 f150 start circut problem

thanks rick,just checked that,works only in start possition,i went one step
further disconected the relay starter side and turned the key on,jumped
from the bat right to the wire to the starter and it starts and runs,tryed
a 3 relay and does the same thing...lost

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Old 11-27-2005, 16:01   #4 (permalink)
Rick
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Re: 84 f150 start circut problem


"jimmithewrench" <jimmi1@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:c3490369e740d03f7e35dc165e0cae65@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...
> thanks rick,just checked that,works only in start possition,i went

one step
> further disconected the relay starter side and turned the key

on,jumped
> from the bat right to the wire to the starter and it starts and

runs,tryed
> a 3 relay and does the same thing...lost
>


I'm kind of lost by your description. The cable from the starter motor
should be on one side of the starter relay, all by itself. The battery
cable and any additional ones from alternator, etc. should be on the
other side. Are you saying the engine cranks as soon as the battery
cable is connected to the battery, even if the small wire is off the
starter relay?

I'd expect it to be similar to this....

http://home.tir.com/~artemus/Impeller/Scan10118.JPG


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Old 11-27-2005, 18:01   #5 (permalink)
jimmithewrench
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Re: 84 f150 start circut problem

yes it ju7st cranks as it did when i bought it for a plow truck,i even took
the wire to the the relay and put it on a toggle switch....from the ign,.
switch,and it keeps trying to start.i even took the other 2 cables off the
battery side of the solinoid,,,,it still want's to start,,,,can it be a
ground feeding back?? some where??/ i did the test with the- disconected
w/the test light and nothithing lit

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Old 11-27-2005, 22:01   #6 (permalink)
Rick
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Re: 84 f150 start circut problem


"jimmithewrench" <jimmi1@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:ae6d65ec329481267f734050ee5df6e7@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...
> yes it ju7st cranks as it did when i bought it for a plow truck,i

even took
> the wire to the the relay and put it on a toggle switch....from the

ign,.
> switch,and it keeps trying to start.i even took the other 2 cables

off the
> battery side of the solinoid,,,,it still want's to start,,,,can it

be a
> ground feeding back?? some where??/ i did the test with the-

disconected
> w/the test light and nothithing lit


Very odd-any chance it had a dual battery setup that was partially
removed?.



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Old 11-28-2005, 01:01   #7 (permalink)
Backyard Mechanic
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Re: 84 f150 start circut problem

"jimmithewrench" <jimmi1@frontiernet.net> wrote:

> yes it ju7st cranks as it did when i bought it for a plow truck,i even
> took the wire to the the relay and put it on a toggle switch....from
> the ign,. switch,and it keeps trying to start.i even took the other 2
> cables off the battery side of the solinoid,,,,it still want's to
> start,,,,can it be a ground feeding back?? some where??/ i did the
> test with the- disconected w/the test light and nothithing lit
>


look.... the other wires on the battery side of the solenoid have nothing
to do with it..they supply power to other circuits.

+ >>>>> Term relay Term >>>> Starter are the big wires, leave them
alone, only 1 big wire on starter side, may be several wires hooked to
batt side

the two small terminals on that relay 1 is to energize the relay, the
other to supply full power to the coil.

If you reverse them, the solenoid may energize whenever the key is on.

So disconnect them both, if starter still wants to crank, you have a bad
solenoid. If the starter doesnt crank, install one of the wires on left
small term. if it cranks when key switched on, remove it and install
other wire on same terminal. it should then only crank with key in start
position. If so, install other wire on other terminal.

If it doesnt seem to matter, and either wire causes the problem then you
have a bad ign switch.



--
Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
you pay..DEAL with it!
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Old 11-28-2005, 08:01   #8 (permalink)
Rick
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Re: 84 f150 start circut problem


"Backyard Mechanic" <pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote in message
news:Xns971C16D898CD3pettyfogery@207.115.63.158...
> "jimmithewrench" <jimmi1@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
> > yes it ju7st cranks as it did when i bought it for a plow truck,i

even
> > took the wire to the the relay and put it on a toggle

switch....from
> > the ign,. switch,and it keeps trying to start.i even took the

other 2
> > cables off the battery side of the solinoid,,,,it still want's to
> > start,,,,can it be a ground feeding back?? some where??/ i did the
> > test with the- disconected w/the test light and nothithing lit
> >

>
> look.... the other wires on the battery side of the solenoid have

nothing
> to do with it..they supply power to other circuits.
>
> + >>>>> Term relay Term >>>> Starter are the big wires, leave

them
> alone, only 1 big wire on starter side, may be several wires hooked

to
> batt side
>
> the two small terminals on that relay 1 is to energize the relay,

the
> other to supply full power to the coil.
>
> If you reverse them, the solenoid may energize whenever the key is

on.
>
> So disconnect them both, if starter still wants to crank, you have a

bad
> solenoid. If the starter doesnt crank, install one of the wires on

left
> small term. if it cranks when key switched on, remove it and

install
> other wire on same terminal. it should then only crank with key in

start
> position. If so, install other wire on other terminal.
>
> If it doesnt seem to matter, and either wire causes the problem then

you
> have a bad ign switch.



Pretty much been through all that already. He said he replaced the
ignition switch, tried 3 solenoids, and it tries to crank as soon as
the battery is connected, even with the small wire(s) disconnected.

To be honest, from his descriptions I can't tell what he's doing with
the cables, if it did this when he bought it or after he added the
plow, etc...


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Old 11-28-2005, 09:01   #9 (permalink)
Backyard Mechanic
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Re: 84 f150 start circut problem

"Rick" <notta@goodone.com> wrote:

> Pretty much been through all that already. He said he replaced the
> ignition switch, tried 3 solenoids, and it tries to crank as soon as
> the battery is connected, even with the small wire(s) disconnected.
>
> To be honest, from his descriptions I can't tell what he's doing with
> the cables, if it did this when he bought it or after he added the
> plow, etc...
>
>


Well that's the point... if he has already replaced the ign switch AND
the solenoid relay, AND it still cranks when connected with both small
terminals disconnected then the thing has to be 'possessed'

And it IS NOT clear that he tried with both small terminals empty.

The key is in that relay/solenoid. If it isnt fried - meaning contacts
are welded together.. and it only clicks when key is on, then something
is wired wrong.

Just to be absolutely clear on this...one of those small terminals is
connected to coil of the relay and positive voltage energizes the relay,
the other is a contact output and provides positive power when relay is
engaged; this is used to switch 12v directly to the coil while
cranking...

thus when the key is ON, its connecting wire will have the same positive
voltage as the + terminal of the coil but current (thus voltage seen on
it) is reduced by the coil ballast resistor. In many cases, this will
still be enough power to energize the relay

--
Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
you pay..DEAL with it!
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Old 11-29-2005, 17:01   #10 (permalink)
jimmithewrench
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Re: 84 f150 start circut problem

A HUGE thankyou to both rick and the "krusty old geezer',yes i did buy the
truck w/the supossed problem of starters burnin up. i checked the flywheel
and was ok so i bought it.I did test the single wire from the ignition
switch[kusty] only 1 wire on this set up,yes it was hot constant,i put in
a new ignition switch.it tested fine at 1rst.i thought i put the old[2nd]
solinoid through enough so put on #3 i know the other wires are running
other things but have had them short before and weld the solinoid
contacts,it's been years since i've delt with theese and you both wolk me
up..it turns out the idiot who sold me this took scotch locks ewwwwwww and
used the wires under the dash that he could find to wire in a stereo &
amp.yes the truck did seem to be possesed thank you both of you
jimmithewrench GOD SUPERSTOCKS ARE SO MUCH EASIER!

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