Guy N. Aford

"lugnut" <lugnut@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:d4svi1ht3s1pov07c4v5aath5rsindag4d@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 12:08:28 GMT, "Guy N. Aford"
> <guynaford@REMOVECAPSgmail.com> wrote:
>

<snip>...

> Also, just looking at the MAF will not confirm that it is clean.

Not with the naked eye, no. But an 8x magnifier provides a really good look
at the individual turns of wire. That helps ensure every last speck is
gone. I had cleaned the MAF a year ago. Black cake on the elements was so
stuck the spray cleaner (as an electronics tech, I have a decent variety of
quality stuff) wasn't enough; had to rake cotton swabs over it. That got
rid of the CEL situation when a pro "Ford specialist" shop in town couldn't
kill the CEL after replacing the EGR (twice), the fuel pump, the DPFE and
all O2 sensors. They weren't even trying to rip me off, they were blatantly
incompetent. If they had tried to scam me, they would have done all that
work and THEN.. FINALLY.. EVENTUALLY fixed the prob. Instead, despite their
"specialist" status and loads of costly test gear, they threw their hands in
the air (and I do mean literally the owner did that), gave up and sent me
away with my CEL light as a reminder of what idiots they are. Not bad
enough? I discovered later they had left one side of a frame bar unbolted
and hanging down at a 30-someodd angle towards the pavement facing forward!
That move could have proven fatal: I had bolted it back on not long before
I ran full on over someone else's road-killed deer at night. Had that bar
been left down to snag the deer, I would no doubt have been thrown into the
deep ditch or worse. So much for yet another pro shop that's been in biz
for decades.

> BTW, it sounds like you either have a bad relationship with
> your dealer or they are incompetent - maybe both.

Both. But they set the terms for the relationship. Dealers have a bad
attitude across the board, at least in these parts -- Nissan has treated me
no better in the past, for example. They all behave as if they are doing
you a favor just for putting up with your presence after the sale. The
parts guys clearly hate their jobs. The mechanics can't or won't do theirs
correctly. It's a generally "up yours" arrogance after the sale. Helluva
way to garner future biz for their oh-so-cheerful sales personnel.


Thanks,
Guy

 

Guy N. Aford

Thanks for the input gang, but the prob was "none of the above".
I'll give ya the scoop in case you'd like to add it to an obscure tip
database somewhere. :)

Due to circumstances beyond my control -- i.e., hurricane Rita aiming
straight for me -- I have to concentrate on prepping the house and myself
for the storm. I don't have time to continue my easter egg hunt for the
prob, so I turned it over to a nearby shop. Their ad says the techs are
ASE-cert. and he's been in biz for 25+ years.
That didn't seem to matter with other shops I've dealt with in terms of
getting quality service but who knows, it's pot luck.
Amazingly, the owner did the work himself -- usually, know-nothing grunts
who should be flippin' burgers instead get the job, at least in my
multi-decade experience with dozens of different shops who couldn't handle
repairs. I can only cross my fingers this guy did the job to last. Maybe
I'll have time for a cursory inspection before I split.

At any rate, as it turns out, the morons at the dealership jammed up the #5
injector lower seal and it was blocking the spray! This is the kind of
stupid mistake one has to almost TRY to make. The _better_half of the seal
was returned to me and it's a horribly squashed and chewed mess. sheesh..
So, one cheap injector seal and $140 later, the stumbling is gone.

The shop owner says since it was definitely the dealer's fault, I might
recoup at least some of my repair bill from them. Hah! Right...


Thanks,
Guy

351CJ

"Guy N. Aford" <guynaford@REMOVECAPSgmail.com> wrote in message
news:VRaYe.17658$zG1.4171@trnddc05...
> Thanks for the input gang, but the prob was "none of the above".
> I'll give ya the scoop in case you'd like to add it to an obscure tip
> database somewhere. :)
>
> Due to circumstances beyond my control -- i.e., hurricane Rita aiming
> straight for me -- I have to concentrate on prepping the house and myself
> for the storm. I don't have time to continue my easter egg hunt for the
> prob, so I turned it over to a nearby shop. Their ad says the techs are
> ASE-cert. and he's been in biz for 25+ years.
> That didn't seem to matter with other shops I've dealt with in terms of
> getting quality service but who knows, it's pot luck.
> Amazingly, the owner did the work himself -- usually, know-nothing grunts
> who should be flippin' burgers instead get the job, at least in my
> multi-decade experience with dozens of different shops who couldn't handle
> repairs. I can only cross my fingers this guy did the job to last. Maybe
> I'll have time for a cursory inspection before I split.
>
> At any rate, as it turns out, the morons at the dealership jammed up the
> #5 injector lower seal and it was blocking the spray! This is the kind of
> stupid mistake one has to almost TRY to make. The _better_half of the
> seal was returned to me and it's a horribly squashed and chewed mess.
> sheesh..
> So, one cheap injector seal and $140 later, the stumbling is gone.
>
> The shop owner says since it was definitely the dealer's fault, I might
> recoup at least some of my repair bill from them. Hah! Right...
>
>
> Thanks,
> Guy


Well Guy, You better take the bill and part of the seal down to the dealer
and demand reimbursement anyway. You stand a pretty good chance of getting
it. Only speak with the service manager, no body else can make this
decision.

If they don't fork over the money make your call to the Ford Motor Company
drone and file a complaint, you won't get any satisfaction from Ford, but
the dealers HATE the negative calls.

Glad you got it fixed.

Happy Traveler

Good luck with the hurricane. Hope your preparations are not needed, and the
beast ends up heading into some harmless void.

If you still have a moment to educate us, it would be interesting to know
how he diagnosed that blocked injector. Was there a code stored for misfire?
Was it for that specific cylinder? Or did he run a cylinder balance test?

----- Original Message -----

> Thanks for the input gang, but the prob was "none of the above".
>
> Due to circumstances beyond my control -- i.e., hurricane Rita aiming
straight for me -- I have to concentrate on > prepping the house and myself
for the storm.

ankhe105

Allright Guy, I hate to say this but I had EXACTLY the same problem on a 96
this spring and I got my help here. The problem was what shoe salesman
said. Moisture in the plug wells. NOTHING MORE! It's hard to get them
dry. They may look dry and not be. Your last mechanic MAY be a sheister
as well. May have dried them out and sold you the injector part for the
heck of it.
As far as the recall, unless you have proof that you asked about it within
the 7 years....forget it.
BTW, I fixed my manifold myself for about $300. Wasn't that hard to do.

Guy N. Aford

"Happy Traveler" <happy_traveler@abc.net> wrote in message
news:YNadnYDryYcjSKzeRVn-sA@comcast.com...
> Good luck with the hurricane. Hope your preparations are not needed, and
> the
> beast ends up heading into some harmless void.

It's a good thing that manifold got replaced when it did and the subsequent
misfire was cured when it was, because that poor car had to endure a 30-hour
drive (I use the term loosely, as most of the time it was parked on the
highway) for a mere 150-mile trip! I'd hate to have had the manifold blow
in that massive traffic jam, likely forcing me to ride out the storm in the
car.
TX DOT is a joke and so are the local (Houston) meteorologists who spewed
more hype than fact. They finally were blessed with a major storm to harp
on after years of.. ahem.. dry spells. The constant barrage of alarming
forecasts, all the prepping and careful packing -- I expected the house to
be in ruins with all the weather gurus mouthing off about imminent 24-foot
storm surges blah blah -- and the non-stop, 30-hour drive... for a grand
total sleep deprivation of about 54 hours. I barely knew my own name when I
finally arrived at my destination. And all that only to learn later that my
destination was slammed with higher winds, more rain and more damage than I
would have faced had I stayed put!! I was definitely not a happy traveler.
Ok, enough venting...

> If you still have a moment to educate us, it would be interesting to know
> how he diagnosed that blocked injector. Was there a code stored for
> misfire?
> Was it for that specific cylinder? Or did he run a cylinder balance test?

I'm not the person who retrieved the car from the shop; fortunately, the
shop owner spelled out what he did on the receipt:

"found cylinder #5 misfire at idle... performed balance test; all injectors
are equal... unable to find vacuum leak... tested coil, plug wires and
spark plugs... removed fuel injectors and found the rubber seal to #5
injector in injector port"

If he's an observant fellow, he probably suspected it initially from a
visual inspection, though. I had earlier spotted a small bit of red rubbery
substance poking out from the base of the injector. I chose not to pluck it
out, as I wanted to avoid creating a problem -- I assumed it was just some
kind of special factory cement or gasket maker material that the dealer
techs had sloppily applied. I now know exactly what it was.

He doesn't list a specific code number (if any) obtained from the EEC.
I could ask him, but I'm sure enough time has elapsed that he would have
forgotten the number. OTOH, he may have it in his own records even though
it's not on my receipt. If you guys are interested, I'll call him on that
when I get a chance.


Thanks,
Guy

Guy N. Aford

"ankhe105" <doug68@centurytel.net> wrote in message
news:14f34ae3c398178c32b9061228abc01b@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...
> Allright Guy, I hate to say this but I had EXACTLY the same problem on a
> 96
> this spring and I got my help here. The problem was what shoe salesman
> said. Moisture in the plug wells. NOTHING MORE! It's hard to get them
> dry. They may look dry and not be. Your last mechanic MAY be a sheister
> as well. May have dried them out and sold you the injector part for the
> heck of it.

I'm convinced he's legit and here's why:
I had earlier spotted a small bit of red rubbery substance poking out from
the base of the injector. I chose not to pluck it out, as I wanted to avoid
creating a problem -- I assumed it was just some kind of special factory
cement or gasket maker material that the dealer techs had sloppily applied.
I now know exactly what it was.

> As far as the recall, unless you have proof that you asked about it within
> the 7 years....forget it.

I have proof I took the car back to the dealer in 1996 as soon as I received
the recall notice. It also proves the dealer elected not to replace it at
that time, which would have spared me this ordeal and saved Ford a
customer -- until this manifold mess, I was perfectly content with my T-bird
and with Ford as well. According to the dealer now, such proof is
irrelevant; Ford WILL deny reimbursement due to the manifold failing after
the 7-year mark. That remains to be seen. I still intend to pursue the
matter. At the very least, I'll give Ford hell over it.

> BTW, I fixed my manifold myself for about $300. Wasn't that hard to do.

Yeah, it's a pretty simple job, which makes me even angrier that the dealer
techs couldn't do it right.
At the time I was under the mistaken impression that Ford would reimburse
me, in toto, if their dealer performed the repair on this recalled part.

I always prefer to do my own repairs when I can, but hey, if it's a choice
between $200 + S&H (cheapest price on this manifold I could find online) or
$0.00 for a Ford dealer job, well...
I won't ever make that kind of mistake about any car manufacturer again. I
will just assume they are all intent on hanging their customers out to dry
after the sale, regardless. In researching this Ford fiasco, I read quite a
few horror stories about a great many vehicles. It seems the mindset of
manufacturers and their dealers is only getting worse over time. I used
mindset, singular, because they all seem to have the same one! bah

Btw, my insurance company is supposed to reimburse me for the towing
expense, so yes, that $0.00 estimate above included towing. :)


Thanks,
Guy

Guy N. Aford

"351CJ" <351CJ@msn.com> wrote in message
news:T%hYe.2849$Az1.2399@trnddc07...
>
> "Guy N. Aford" <guynaford@REMOVECAPSgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:VRaYe.17658$zG1.4171@trnddc05...
>>
>> The shop owner says since it was definitely the dealer's fault, I might
>> recoup at least some of my repair bill from them. Hah! Right...
>
> Well Guy, You better take the bill and part of the seal down to the dealer
> and demand reimbursement anyway. You stand a pretty good chance of
> getting it. Only speak with the service manager, no body else can make
> this decision.
>
> If they don't fork over the money make your call to the Ford Motor Company
> drone and file a complaint, you won't get any satisfaction from Ford, but
> the dealers HATE the negative calls.

I'll definitely give the dealer negative marks to whomever will (or even
won't) listen.
I'll also revisit the dealer and try to score a refund. Will let ya know
how successful it was.

Thanks,
Guy