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Old 11-23-2005, 12:01   #1 (permalink)
Backyard Mechanic
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Dumb Short-sight opinions II; was Hybrid Lament

>> Detroit could easily build a 2500 pound
>> family car that gives 40 mpg and costs $8,000 brand new and gives
>> 250,000 trouble-free miles on nothing but routine maintenance.


Uh... yes they could!

One marque per maker

With, one powertrain, 3 models, no yearly facelift designing, platform and
fascia unchanged for 12 years and available only in black, with tan mohair
upholstery, but hey... isnt that where Ford came in?
- - - -- - - - - -

And that was tried before.. called it a Yugo. Met the price anyway..

--
Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
you pay..DEAL with it!
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Old 11-23-2005, 16:01   #2 (permalink)
Spike
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Re: Dumb Short-sight opinions II; was Hybrid Lament

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 19:59:23 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
<pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote:

>>> Detroit could easily build a 2500 pound
>>> family car that gives 40 mpg and costs $8,000 brand new and gives
>>> 250,000 trouble-free miles on nothing but routine maintenance.

>
>Uh... yes they could!
>
>One marque per maker
>
>With, one powertrain, 3 models, no yearly facelift designing, platform and
>fascia unchanged for 12 years and available only in black, with tan mohair
>upholstery, but hey... isnt that where Ford came in?
>- - - -- - - - - -
>
>And that was tried before.. called it a Yugo. Met the price anyway..

As soon as I read the description I thought Yugo... the throw away
car....
--

Spike
1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound
audio-video...
See my ride at....
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/d..._11_05_002.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/E...ebuild_006.jpg
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Old 11-23-2005, 18:01   #3 (permalink)
Jeff
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Posts: n/a
Re: Dumb Short-sight opinions II; was Hybrid Lament


"Backyard Mechanic" <pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote in message
news:Xns971799B3E6B3Apettyfogery@207.115.63.158...
>>> Detroit could easily build a 2500 pound
>>> family car that gives 40 mpg and costs $8,000 brand new and gives
>>> 250,000 trouble-free miles on nothing but routine maintenance.

>
> Uh... yes they could!
>
> One marque per maker
>
> With, one powertrain, 3 models, no yearly facelift designing, platform and
> fascia unchanged for 12 years and available only in black, with tan mohair
> upholstery, but hey... isnt that where Ford came in?


Actually, that is where Kia and Hyundai come in. The Kia Rio gets 38 MPG and
costs $11,000 or so. Pretty close.

And the Hyundai Accent is $10,000 and gets about 35 mpg.

If people wanted cheap car and higher milage, someone would deliver. But
most people want more car than you can get for $8000 or even $11,000.

Jeff

> - - - -- - - - - -
>
> And that was tried before.. called it a Yugo. Met the price anyway..
>
> --
> Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
> you pay..DEAL with it!



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Old 11-23-2005, 20:01   #4 (permalink)
Backyard Mechanic
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Re: Dumb Short-sight opinions II; was Hybrid Lament

"Jeff" wrote:


>> One marque per maker
>>
>> With, one powertrain, 3 models, no yearly facelift designing,
>> platform and fascia unchanged for 12 years and available only in
>> black, with tan mohair upholstery, but hey... isnt that where Ford
>> came in?

>
> Actually, that is where Kia and Hyundai come in. The Kia Rio gets 38
> MPG and costs $11,000 or so. Pretty close.
>
> And the Hyundai Accent is $10,000 and gets about 35 mpg.
>
> If people wanted cheap car and higher milage, someone would deliver.
> But most people want more car than you can get for $8000 or even
> $11,000.
>


Exactly. Remember the premise of Saturn? Not exactly cheap but high
quality, high reliabilty, good milage?!!!!!!

Yeah... LOT of people SAY that's what's wanted.. and maybe THEY do...
but, for me, I'd rather drive a used TBird or Mustang than a Saturn, let
alone a Hyndai or Kia.

Of course, 'come the Revolution'.....
--
Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
you pay..DEAL with it!
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Old 11-23-2005, 22:01   #5 (permalink)
Spike
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Posts: n/a
Re: Dumb Short-sight opinions II; was Hybrid Lament

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 03:27:39 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
<pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote:

>"Jeff" wrote:
>
>
>>> One marque per maker
>>>
>>> With, one powertrain, 3 models, no yearly facelift designing,
>>> platform and fascia unchanged for 12 years and available only in
>>> black, with tan mohair upholstery, but hey... isnt that where Ford
>>> came in?

>>
>> Actually, that is where Kia and Hyundai come in. The Kia Rio gets 38
>> MPG and costs $11,000 or so. Pretty close.
>>
>> And the Hyundai Accent is $10,000 and gets about 35 mpg.
>>
>> If people wanted cheap car and higher milage, someone would deliver.
>> But most people want more car than you can get for $8000 or even
>> $11,000.
>>

>
>Exactly. Remember the premise of Saturn? Not exactly cheap but high
>quality, high reliabilty, good milage?!!!!!!
>
>Yeah... LOT of people SAY that's what's wanted.. and maybe THEY do...
>but, for me, I'd rather drive a used TBird or Mustang than a Saturn, let
>alone a Hyndai or Kia.
>
>Of course, 'come the Revolution'.....

Remember the tv show (also movie) Alien Nation? Where our hero had a
TransAM or some such, but fuel and parts were hard to get.....

Wasn't the Yugo down in the $5-7K range?
--

Spike
1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound
audio-video...
See my ride at....
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg
Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/d..._11_05_002.jpg
Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/E...ebuild_006.jpg
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Old 11-24-2005, 06:01   #6 (permalink)
Jeff
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Re: Dumb Short-sight opinions II; was Hybrid Lament


"Backyard Mechanic" <pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9717E5B39BA8Epettyfogery@207.115.63.158...

(...)

> Exactly. Remember the premise of Saturn? Not exactly cheap but high
> quality, high reliabilty, good milage?!!!!!!


But people pay a preium for good fuel milage with the Prius, Civic Hybrid
and Escape hybrid and some VW diesel models.

Jeff


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Old 11-24-2005, 10:01   #7 (permalink)
Mike Hunter
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Posts: n/a
Re: Dumb Short-sight opinions II; was Hybrid Lament

Face it the vast majority of the 19,000,000 new vehicle buyers in the US do
NOT want smaller more economical cars. If people wanted small high mileage
vehicles they currently can buy any one of dozen of so available on the
market today. Obviously buyers have many needs besides a low acquisition
cost and/or low fuel costs. Look at what people actually buy today. Half
of all the new vehicles sold in the US today are light trucks including
SUVs. The top selling three vehicles are not cars nor is the best selling
vehicle a car, it is the Ford F150 and has been for nearly thirty years.
Even the best selling car is not a small car, it is an intermediate sedan,
the Camry. Eight out of 10 Camrys sold has only a 4cy engine not a V6, but
that has more to do with Toyotas pricing strategy then fuel economy. To get
a V6 in a Camry one needs to upgrade to the point where even Toyota lovers
balk at the high price. Other brands that offer a V6 a more reasonable
prices, sell more V6s than 4s however.

mike


"Backyard Mechanic" <pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9717E5B39BA8Epettyfogery@207.115.63.158...
> "Jeff" wrote:
>
>
>>> One marque per maker
>>>
>>> With, one powertrain, 3 models, no yearly facelift designing,
>>> platform and fascia unchanged for 12 years and available only in
>>> black, with tan mohair upholstery, but hey... isnt that where Ford
>>> came in?

>>
>> Actually, that is where Kia and Hyundai come in. The Kia Rio gets 38
>> MPG and costs $11,000 or so. Pretty close.
>>
>> And the Hyundai Accent is $10,000 and gets about 35 mpg.
>>
>> If people wanted cheap car and higher milage, someone would deliver.
>> But most people want more car than you can get for $8000 or even
>> $11,000.
>>

>
> Exactly. Remember the premise of Saturn? Not exactly cheap but high
> quality, high reliabilty, good milage?!!!!!!
>
> Yeah... LOT of people SAY that's what's wanted.. and maybe THEY do...
> but, for me, I'd rather drive a used TBird or Mustang than a Saturn, let
> alone a Hyndai or Kia.
>
> Of course, 'come the Revolution'.....
> --
> Yeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price
> you pay..DEAL with it!



  Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2005, 10:01   #8 (permalink)
Howard Nelson
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Posts: n/a
Re: Dumb Short-sight opinions II; was Hybrid Lament


"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:wOadnYVU--ZrdRjeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
> Face it the vast majority of the 19,000,000 new vehicle buyers in the US

do
> NOT want smaller more economical cars. If people wanted small high

mileage
> vehicles they currently can buy any one of dozen of so available on the
> market today. Obviously buyers have many needs besides a low acquisition
> cost and/or low fuel costs. Look at what people actually buy today. Half
> of all the new vehicles sold in the US today are light trucks including
> SUVs. The top selling three vehicles are not cars nor is the best

selling
> vehicle a car, it is the Ford F150 and has been for nearly thirty years.
> Even the best selling car is not a small car, it is an intermediate sedan,
> the Camry. Eight out of 10 Camrys sold has only a 4cy engine not a V6,

but
> that has more to do with Toyotas pricing strategy then fuel economy. To

get
> a V6 in a Camry one needs to upgrade to the point where even Toyota lovers
> balk at the high price. Other brands that offer a V6 a more reasonable
> prices, sell more V6s than 4s however.
>
> mike


Your post has given me some thought. If I were to purchase a new car at this
time a reasonable choice would be a Honda Civic with a stick. Excellent fit
and finish, enough room and power for me, proven technology and reasonably
economical. However !!! When I get out in traffic I am intimidated. I
realize I want more steel, more mass, more airbags and better sight lines.
So I would probably get a Camry or accord for a sedan or a minivan. A civic,
focus or neon may give excellent crash protection but I am not convinced.
Anyway I am not in the market for a new car cuz I drive them till they
break.

Howard
89 Mustang vert
95 Windstar


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Old 11-24-2005, 11:01   #9 (permalink)
Ashton Crusher
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Posts: n/a
Re: Dumb Short-sight opinions II; was Hybrid Lament

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 13:40:33 GMT, "Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>"Backyard Mechanic" <pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote in message
>news:Xns9717E5B39BA8Epettyfogery@207.115.63.158...
>
>(...)
>
>> Exactly. Remember the premise of Saturn? Not exactly cheap but high
>> quality, high reliabilty, good milage?!!!!!!

>
>But people pay a preium for good fuel milage with the Prius, Civic Hybrid
>and Escape hybrid and some VW diesel models.
>
>Jeff
>


Yup, they pay as much extra for the car as they save in gas. I guess
it makes them feel good but it's really just consumption of energy via
first cost and eventual recycling cost (esp of the batteries) rather
the periodic costs for fuel.
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Old 11-25-2005, 17:01   #10 (permalink)
joe schmoe
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Posts: n/a
Re: Dumb Short-sight opinions II; was Hybrid Lament

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 11:34:44 -0700, Ashton Crusher <Hello@nowhere.net>
wrote:

>On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 13:40:33 GMT, "Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>"Backyard Mechanic" <pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote in message
>>news:Xns9717E5B39BA8Epettyfogery@207.115.63.158...
>>
>>(...)
>>
>>> Exactly. Remember the premise of Saturn? Not exactly cheap but high
>>> quality, high reliabilty, good milage?!!!!!!

>>
>>But people pay a preium for good fuel milage with the Prius, Civic Hybrid
>>and Escape hybrid and some VW diesel models.
>>
>>Jeff
>>

>
>Yup, they pay as much extra for the car as they save in gas. I guess
>it makes them feel good but it's really just consumption of energy via
>first cost and eventual recycling cost (esp of the batteries) rather
>the periodic costs for fuel.



Cost point****
>>

They were selling brand new Cavalier's for $10,000 Canadian this past
summer.... Maintained that would be pretty close to the goal.

Personal Rant point*******
>>

What the big 3 should be building (in my opinion) is full size
vehicles with medium range (20 miles) batteries and electric
motors/generators.

First rule of engineering KISS Keep It Simple Stupid.

A quick couple connection (say one at each front wheel) that connects
and charges as you park. Provides a use for overnight electrical
generation and would dramatically reduce fuel consumption/air
pollution. Installed in tandem to a decent V8 you'd have neck
snapping acceleration when you want it and electric power for the stop
and go driving that accounts for 90% of our daily frustration/air
pollution.

We could keep the cars we love, plus have a reduced dependency upon
foreign oil.

As for the feel good small car crowd.... Has anyone calculated the
pollution and other costs created by a person in a pop can car having
serious accident v/s a person in a real car (Crown Vic/Town Car).
(Last time that I heard nearly 4LBS of CFC's were released to clean
plastic stents used for medical procedures)
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