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Old 01-25-2006, 04:01   #1 (permalink)
monastein@bol.com.br
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Ford should be condemn - but not for cutting jobs.

I don't know if anyone have notice that Ford has slashed over 30,000
jobs. This is a huge cut, many people may not know that Ford and other
auto industry have remove more then 65,000 jobs in 2004 - 2005. Now
they are going to remove more jobs, shut plants.

Unlike South America, Asia, and Europe - American CEO make millions of
dollars - that's 300 times more then what public is making - including
engineer.

It is true CEO do not deserve "100%" blame, but nonetheless they do
deserve some. If they really care about their fellow worker then they
would not be as greedy as they are now. However, the biggest crime CEO
and other big shot have committed is not cutting jobs, but hiding the
facts from public.

What facts?

World crude oil production is falling - and it has or about to reached
a peak (all time high). Already, many big oil province are seeing water
cuts (meaning they are producing more water). Those of who are not
aware of these shocking fact should read this article.
http://www.peakoil.ie/newsletters/682

You may ask what does this have to do with auto industry? Well, for
starter they will not be able to sell SUV and other gas guzzling cars.
And as price of oil go through the roof, some people won't be able to
afford the car they already have. Ford and other auto industry should
have taken this into consideration. But did they? So far evidence speak
for itself.

Thanks for reading.

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Old 01-25-2006, 06:01   #2 (permalink)
Frank from Deeeetroit
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Re: Ford should be condemn - but not for cutting jobs.


<monastein@bol.com.br> wrote in message
news:1138188263.782505.247510@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I don't know if anyone have notice that Ford has slashed over 30,000
> jobs. This is a huge cut, many people may not know that Ford and other
> auto industry have remove more then 65,000 jobs in 2004 - 2005. Now
> they are going to remove more jobs, shut plants.


The plants Ford are closing are operating at 70-85% capacity, with employees
working as if the plants are at 100% capacity. Good economics dictate
cutting back via plant closures and lay offs.


> Unlike South America, Asia, and Europe - American CEO make millions of
> dollars - that's 300 times more then what public is making - including
> engineer.


> It is true CEO do not deserve "100%" blame, but nonetheless they do
> deserve some. If they really care about their fellow worker then they
> would not be as greedy as they are now. However, the biggest crime CEO
> and other big shot have committed is not cutting jobs, but hiding the
> facts from public.


The CEO has 100% of the responsibility to make the best decision for the
good of the company not for the good of an employee.
>
> What facts?
>
> World crude oil production is falling - and it has or about to reached
> a peak (all time high). Already, many big oil province are seeing water
> cuts (meaning they are producing more water). Those of who are not
> aware of these shocking fact should read this article.
> http://www.peakoil.ie/newsletters/682


Crude oil production is not falling, the demand for the supply is
increasing.

>
> You may ask what does this have to do with auto industry? Well, for
> starter they will not be able to sell SUV and other gas guzzling cars.
> And as price of oil go through the roof, some people won't be able to
> afford the car they already have. Ford and other auto industry should
> have taken this into consideration. But did they? So far evidence speak
> for itself.


If people can afford the price of the vehicle, they can afford the price of
gas.

> Thanks for reading.
>



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Old 01-25-2006, 06:01   #3 (permalink)
stonej
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Re: Ford should be condemn - but not for cutting jobs.

If people can afford the price of the vehicle, they can afford the
price of
gas.


If gas went to $8.00 a gallon would you want to be driving an SUV?

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Old 01-25-2006, 06:01   #4 (permalink)
Ken
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Re: Ford should be condemn - but not for cutting jobs.

monastein@bol.com.br wrote:
> I don't know if anyone have notice that Ford has slashed over 30,000
> jobs. This is a huge cut, many people may not know that Ford and other
> auto industry have remove more then 65,000 jobs in 2004 - 2005. Now
> they are going to remove more jobs, shut plants.
>
> Unlike South America, Asia, and Europe - American CEO make millions of
> dollars - that's 300 times more then what public is making - including
> engineer.
>
> It is true CEO do not deserve "100%" blame, but nonetheless they do
> deserve some. If they really care about their fellow worker then they
> would not be as greedy as they are now. However, the biggest crime CEO
> and other big shot have committed is not cutting jobs, but hiding the
> facts from public.
>
> What facts?
>
> World crude oil production is falling - and it has or about to reached
> a peak (all time high). Already, many big oil province are seeing water
> cuts (meaning they are producing more water). Those of who are not
> aware of these shocking fact should read this article.
> http://www.peakoil.ie/newsletters/682
>
> You may ask what does this have to do with auto industry? Well, for
> starter they will not be able to sell SUV and other gas guzzling cars.
> And as price of oil go through the roof, some people won't be able to
> afford the car they already have. Ford and other auto industry should
> have taken this into consideration. But did they? So far evidence speak
> for itself.
>
> Thanks for reading.
>


Spoken like a true liberal. First off union demands and protection of
workers who do NOT perform as if their job depended upon it (and it
does), contribute more to the problem than does the CEO. That is not to
say the CEO is immune and not over paid, but as another poster said he
is responsible to the shareholders primarily. When ALL employees work
for a common purpose instead of individual goals, the company and all
who work for it benefit if the business plan and product is good.

One does not need to look back to corporate history very far to see
examples of how selfish individuals killed the "Goose who laid the
golden eggs." Do you recall Eastern Airlines and Frank Borman? He
tried to tell the employees that the airline could not exist unless
costs were cut. He was right and all lost their jobs.

As for the impact of increased energy costs and how it will impact
autos: Either today's autos will be made to consume less energy, more
oil will be produced, or new technology will be developed to replace the
current technology. That is what is called free enterprise, and it has
worked for centuries.

Finally if you want to get upset about something, get upset about the
decisions made by politicians who care only about making their
competition look bad. They should be asking what is good for the
country rather than making decisions for political gain. Much could be
said about this suggestion, but I am sure you can cite numerous examples
of such behavior.

P.S. It goes without saying that CEO's that steal from the company like
some have done, should go to jail. Please do not construe my comments
as implying that they do no wrong.
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Old 01-25-2006, 08:01   #5 (permalink)
monastein@bol.com.br
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Re: Ford should be condemn - but not for cutting jobs.

Ken wrote:

> Spoken like a true liberal.

I am not a liberal.

> First off union demands and protection of workers who do NOT perform as if their job depended upon >it (and it does), contribute more to the problem than does the CEO.


I don't like union. I am very much against it :) I am from Europe, CEO
don't make as money as Euproean CEO. I don't support Conservative -
most of them are racist here in Canada, nor I like liberals.


>That is not to say the CEO is immune and not over paid, but as another poster said he is responsible to the shareholders primarily.


CEO are immune here in America! Remember Enron?


> P.S. It goes without saying that CEO's that steal from the company like
> some have done, should go to jail. Please do not construe my comments
> as implying that they do no wrong.


I think we can all agree that peak oil is a big problem. And thank you
for taking your time and reading post.

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Old 01-25-2006, 08:01   #6 (permalink)
Frank from Deeeetroit
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Re: Ford should be condemn - but not for cutting jobs.

Yes, becaue I choose to pay for the gas regardless.


"stonej" <stonej@mail.lib.msu.edu> wrote in message
news:1138196204.836762.131960@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> If people can afford the price of the vehicle, they can afford the
> price of
> gas.
>
>
> If gas went to $8.00 a gallon would you want to be driving an SUV?
>



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Old 01-25-2006, 08:01   #7 (permalink)
Frank from Deeeetroit
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Re: Ford should be condemn - but not for cutting jobs.


<monastein@bol.com.br> wrote in message
news:1138201532.010338.148900@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Ken wrote:
>
>> Spoken like a true liberal.

> I am not a liberal.
>
>> First off union demands and protection of workers who do NOT perform as
>> if their job depended upon >it (and it does), contribute more to the
>> problem than does the CEO.

>
> I don't like union. I am very much against it :) I am from Europe, CEO
> don't make as money as Euproean CEO. I don't support Conservative -
> most of them are racist here in Canada, nor I like liberals.


Unions are old fashion. All of the valid arguments the unions used to
organize labor 70-80 years ago have been dealt with through laws and
administrative rules. Unions have outlived their usefulness.


>
>>That is not to say the CEO is immune and not over paid, but as another
>>poster said he is responsible to the shareholders primarily.

>
> CEO are immune here in America! Remember Enron?


The guys from Enron are facing prison terms.

>
>
>> P.S. It goes without saying that CEO's that steal from the company like
>> some have done, should go to jail. Please do not construe my comments
>> as implying that they do no wrong.

>
> I think we can all agree that peak oil is a big problem. And thank you
> for taking your time and reading post.


Oil is not the problem. The worldwide demand for oil is the problem. Wait
a few years when China increases their production due to their low labor
cost, the price of oil will skyrocket.

Frank


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Old 01-25-2006, 11:01   #8 (permalink)
Mike Hunter
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Posts: n/a
Re: Ford should be condemn - but not for cutting jobs.

What? If indeed world crude oil production is FALLING how has it reached
its all time high? Perhaps you mean available production of LOW cost
crude? LOL

You seem to forget gasoline is one of the lowest cost byproducts of the
refining process. If the gasoline is not consumed it will need to be burned
off at the refinery, as it was before it became a motor fuel, so that the
far more profitable carbon byproducts can be stored and sold.


mike hunt


<monastein@bol.com.br> wrote in message
news:1138188263.782505.247510@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> World crude oil production is falling - and it has or about to reached
> a peak (all time high).


<snip>
>
> You may ask what does this have to do with auto industry? Well, for
> starter they will not be able to sell SUV and other gas guzzling cars.
> And as price of oil go through the roof, some people won't be able to
> afford the car they already have. Ford and other auto industry should
> have taken this into consideration. But did they? So far evidence speak
> for itself.
>
> Thanks for reading.
>



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Old 01-25-2006, 11:01   #9 (permalink)
Mike Hunter
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Posts: n/a
Re: Ford should be condemn - but not for cutting jobs.

If, as when I was young and had a wife and five children, sure. What else
would I drive, two small cars? Actually historically when the price of gas
goes up it is the small cars that are driven less by their owners that can
afford the gas, not the other way around.


mike hunt


"stonej" <stonej@mail.lib.msu.edu> wrote in message
news:1138196204.836762.131960@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> If people can afford the price of the vehicle, they can afford the
> price of
> gas.
>
>
> If gas went to $8.00 a gallon would you want to be driving an SUV?
>



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Old 01-25-2006, 14:01   #10 (permalink)
Spike
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Posts: n/a
Re: Ford should be condemn - but not for cutting jobs.

On 25 Jan 2006 03:24:23 -0800, monastein@bol.com.br wrote:

>I don't know if anyone have notice that Ford has slashed over 30,000
>jobs. This is a huge cut, many people may not know that Ford and other
>auto industry have remove more then 65,000 jobs in 2004 - 2005. Now
>they are going to remove more jobs, shut plants.
>
>Unlike South America, Asia, and Europe - American CEO make millions of
>dollars - that's 300 times more then what public is making - including
>engineer.
>
>It is true CEO do not deserve "100%" blame, but nonetheless they do
>deserve some. If they really care about their fellow worker then they
>would not be as greedy as they are now. However, the biggest crime CEO
>and other big shot have committed is not cutting jobs, but hiding the
>facts from public.
>
>What facts?
>
>World crude oil production is falling - and it has or about to reached
>a peak (all time high). Already, many big oil province are seeing water
>cuts (meaning they are producing more water). Those of who are not
>aware of these shocking fact should read this article.
>http://www.peakoil.ie/newsletters/682
>
>You may ask what does this have to do with auto industry? Well, for
>starter they will not be able to sell SUV and other gas guzzling cars.
>And as price of oil go through the roof, some people won't be able to
>afford the car they already have. Ford and other auto industry should
>have taken this into consideration. But did they? So far evidence speak
>for itself.
>
>Thanks for reading.

It was hard to miss the "the sky is falling" doom and gloom report of
this. However, this is a basic business decision which all companies
are faced with at some point, be the large or small.

The jobs are not being cut overnight. They are being cut over, as I
recall, a 6 year period. How many of those positions will be cut
through normal attrition? That is, retirements (perhaps earlier than
planned), death/injury (on or off the job), normal migration of
workers to new jobs, normal relocations to new geographical locations,
etc? How many due to Publishers Clearinghouse knocking on their door,
or winning the lottery? (Couldn't resist tossing that in... LOL)

How many workers at plants which are closing will be offered jobs at
plants which are remaining open, in order to fill vacancies developed
through normal attrition... similar to Boeing leaving Seattle and
offering the employees the opportunity to relocate to the new complex.
It's an economic hit. One that had to be made, no matter who makes how
much money. But, it's not the end of the world. How many people would
lose their jobs if Ford totally folded? Not gonna happen, the
government would step in and bail them out as happened in the past,
because the country could not take that big a blow.

And unions, while serving a purpose for the workers, have done their
fair share to bring this decision to the table.

--

Spike
1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy
w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok;
Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich
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