I just received my PIN and called the program headquarters to verify
how things are supposed to work. Apparently, the hybrid has been
excluded from the X program. Gotta love that nice arbitrary decision on
Ford's part.
I was just curious if anyone prior to now had been able to successfully
use X-Plan pricing to get a hybrid.
A manufacture has no obligation to offer a discount to any one
person or any group. That right certainly apples to any
particular model as well. For that matter the dealership can
sell any vehicle over MSRP if he chooses. Ford dealers are
getting well over MSRP for GT Mustangs and Toyota dealers are
marking the Prius up by $2,500. The dealership is not obligated
to accept an 'X' or 'A' sale, and the lower profit they provide,
nor can they offer 'X' or 'A' except as provide by the
manufacture. Buy the standard V6 Escape, WBMA. You will save
far more money on the difference in purchase price than you can
ever save on the difference in fuel costs with the hybrid in ten
years and the V6 has more power when needed.
mike hunt
Jon wrote:
>
> I just received my PIN and called the program headquarters to verify
> how things are supposed to work. Apparently, the hybrid has been
> excluded from the X program. Gotta love that nice arbitrary decision on
> Ford's part.
>
> I was just curious if anyone prior to now had been able to successfully
> use X-Plan pricing to get a hybrid.
>
> Jon
>You will save
>far more money on the difference in purchase price than you can
>ever save on the difference in fuel costs with the hybrid in ten
>years and the V6 has more power when needed.
If fuel prices go down, you'll be right. If they go up, you
certainly won't be.
What do you think is more likely: That prices will double to
$4/gal or be cut in half to $1 within the coming ten years?
Besides, hybrids are low emission vehicles. The fuel savings is a
side effect of that.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
BenDover@mailcity.com wrote:
> A manufacture has no obligation to offer a discount to any one
> person or any group. That right certainly apples to any
> particular model as well. For that matter the dealership can
Google offers its employees $5000 to buy a hybrid automobile.
No, wait, not all hybrids. Just the sensible ones, in their estimation.
Honda Insight, Honda Civic, not Honda Accord.
Toyota Prius, not Toyota Highlander.
Not Ford Escape.
They can offer whatever they want to offer.
> sell any vehicle over MSRP if he chooses. Ford dealers are
> getting well over MSRP for GT Mustangs and Toyota dealers are
> marking the Prius up by $2,500.
Some Ford dealers were selling the Escape Hybrid between $3-5,000 over
MSRP, and had waiting lists at that. My wife and I decided we didn't want
one that badly, and found a dealer with no markup, but also no allocation
left for 2005, and we pre-ordered a 2006. Someone else dropped out, and we
got a 2005 in November.
> Buy the standard V6 Escape, WBMA. You will save far more money on the
> difference in purchase price than you can ever save on the difference in
> fuel costs with the hybrid in ten years and the V6 has more power when
Maybe. Maybe not.
2005 V-6 4wd 18/22, HEV 4wd 33/29.
I drove 30000 miles last year. Gas is $2.39 here.
City: 1666 gallons v-6, 909 HEV = $1800/year.
Highway: 1363 gallons v-6, 1034 HEV = $800/year.
I'm 40% ahead of mileage a friend is getting with a V-6, and double what
some people have posted to this NG and Edmunds for the V-6 Escape. I'm
disappointed in the V-6 mileage of the Escape, which I had considered
buying when I couldn't get early delivery of the Escape Hybrid.
We are averaging 27 mpg, our friend averages 19mpg, that's $1115 per year.
I haven't timed 0-60 runs, but it has ample power, once you get over the
odd CVT program that causes the engine speed to jump to 4,000 RPM as soon
as you step on the gas. The power is there. It just sounds like it is
giving its all at half throttle.
I like my Escape Hybrid. I'm glad I bought it.
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5
>> Buy the standard V6 Escape, WBMA. You will save far more money on the
>> difference in purchase price than you can ever save on the difference in
>> fuel costs with the hybrid in ten years and the V6 has more power when
>
>Maybe. Maybe not.
>2005 V-6 4wd 18/22, HEV 4wd 33/29.
>I drove 30000 miles last year. Gas is $2.39 here.
>City: 1666 gallons v-6, 909 HEV = $1800/year.
>Highway: 1363 gallons v-6, 1034 HEV = $800/year.
>
>I'm 40% ahead of mileage a friend is getting with a V-6, and double what
>some people have posted to this NG and Edmunds for the V-6 Escape. I'm
>disappointed in the V-6 mileage of the Escape, which I had considered
>buying when I couldn't get early delivery of the Escape Hybrid.
>We are averaging 27 mpg, our friend averages 19mpg, that's $1115 per year.
I'm averaging just under 30 mpg. I bought from a dealer at MSRP,
and figure I paid about $3,000 extra for the hybrid over what the
V-6 4wd would have cost.
I should make that up quickly, even if the sharply rising demand
for oil for some inexplicable reason doesn't cause prices to rise.
>I haven't timed 0-60 runs, but it has ample power, once you get over the
>odd CVT program that causes the engine speed to jump to 4,000 RPM as soon
>as you step on the gas. The power is there. It just sounds like it is
>giving its all at half throttle.
Good description.
>I like my Escape Hybrid. I'm glad I bought it.
Same here.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
Better think that though through a bet longer. Take a look at the
EPA figures for both. Then get a drive home price for both. The
$6,000 or more it will cost to drive home the hybrid v the V6
will buy ALL of the gas you will used in the V6 for the first
five years based on the difference let alone make up the
difference between the two. For the average new car buyer the
hybrids are a big looser when one considers the average new car
buyer replaces their car with another new car every three to four
years in the US. Even if you do keep the hybrid longer the
$4,000 battery replacement cost will run the V6 for another four
years. Now if it is one that can afford the extra fuel cost to
run a hybrid to save the world, be my guest. Personally I hope
more buyers chose hybrids, that will leave more gas for those of
us are happy driving our high powered RWD V8 cars that only get
25 MPG ;)
mike hunt
Jim Chinnis wrote:
>
> BenDover@mailcity.com wrote in part:
>
> >You will save
> >far more money on the difference in purchase price than you can
> >ever save on the difference in fuel costs with the hybrid in ten
> >years and the V6 has more power when needed.
>
> If fuel prices go down, you'll be right. If they go up, you
> certainly won't be.
>
> What do you think is more likely: That prices will double to
> $4/gal or be cut in half to $1 within the coming ten years?
>
> Besides, hybrids are low emission vehicles. The fuel savings is a
> side effect of that.
> --
> Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
Jim Chinnis wrote:
>
> BenDover@mailcity.com wrote in part:
>
> >You will save
> >far more money on the difference in purchase price than you can
> >ever save on the difference in fuel costs with the hybrid in ten
> >years and the V6 has more power when needed.
>
> If fuel prices go down, you'll be right. If they go up, you
> certainly won't be.
>
> What do you think is more likely: That prices will double to
> $4/gal or be cut in half to $1 within the coming ten years?
>
> Besides, hybrids are low emission vehicles. The fuel savings is a
> side effect of that.
> --
> Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
Your $800 fuel saving example proves the case that it will take
years to simply recover the price difference BEFORE you save any
money on fuel. Don't forget to factor in the inevitable $4,000
battery replacement cost, a few years down the line, into that
equation as well. Another point to consider is the techs trained
to work on hybrids earn another $10 an hour when they work on
your vehicle
The only way to get and vehicle with a CVT to the lowest ratio
and the highest point on the torque curve, to pull out or climb a
steep grade, is to get to the top of the RPM band.
mike hunt
dold@XReXXNoXX-.usenet.us.com wrote:
>
> BenDover@mailcity.com wrote:
> > A manufacture has no obligation to offer a discount to any one
> > person or any group. That right certainly apples to any
> > particular model as well. For that matter the dealership can
>
> Google offers its employees $5000 to buy a hybrid automobile.
> No, wait, not all hybrids. Just the sensible ones, in their estimation.
> Honda Insight, Honda Civic, not Honda Accord.
> Toyota Prius, not Toyota Highlander.
> Not Ford Escape.
> They can offer whatever they want to offer.
>
> > sell any vehicle over MSRP if he chooses. Ford dealers are
> > getting well over MSRP for GT Mustangs and Toyota dealers are
> > marking the Prius up by $2,500.
>
> Some Ford dealers were selling the Escape Hybrid between $3-5,000 over
> MSRP, and had waiting lists at that. My wife and I decided we didn't want
> one that badly, and found a dealer with no markup, but also no allocation
> left for 2005, and we pre-ordered a 2006. Someone else dropped out, and we
> got a 2005 in November.
>
> > Buy the standard V6 Escape, WBMA. You will save far more money on the
> > difference in purchase price than you can ever save on the difference in
> > fuel costs with the hybrid in ten years and the V6 has more power when
>
> Maybe. Maybe not.
> 2005 V-6 4wd 18/22, HEV 4wd 33/29.
> I drove 30000 miles last year. Gas is $2.39 here.
> City: 1666 gallons v-6, 909 HEV = $1800/year.
> Highway: 1363 gallons v-6, 1034 HEV = $800/year.
>
> I'm 40% ahead of mileage a friend is getting with a V-6, and double what
> some people have posted to this NG and Edmunds for the V-6 Escape. I'm
> disappointed in the V-6 mileage of the Escape, which I had considered
> buying when I couldn't get early delivery of the Escape Hybrid.
> We are averaging 27 mpg, our friend averages 19mpg, that's $1115 per year.
>
> I haven't timed 0-60 runs, but it has ample power, once you get over the
> odd CVT program that causes the engine speed to jump to 4,000 RPM as soon
> as you step on the gas. The power is there. It just sounds like it is
> giving its all at half throttle.
>
> I like my Escape Hybrid. I'm glad I bought it.
>
> ---
> Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 10:35:41 -0500, BigJohnson wrote:
> Better think that though through a bet longer. Take a look at the
> EPA figures for both. Then get a drive home price for both. The
> $6,000 or more it will cost to drive home the hybrid v the V6
> will buy ALL of the gas you will used in the V6 for the first
> five years based on the difference let alone make up the
> difference between the two. For the average new car buyer the
> hybrids are a big looser when one considers the average new car
> buyer replaces their car with another new car every three to four
> years in the US. Even if you do keep the hybrid longer the
> $4,000 battery replacement cost will run the V6 for another four
> years. Now if it is one that can afford the extra fuel cost to
> run a hybrid to save the world, be my guest. Personally I hope
> more buyers chose hybrids, that will leave more gas for those of
> us are happy driving our high powered RWD V8 cars that only get
> 25 MPG ;)
>
>
> mike hunt
I think everyone except me should drive hybrid cars. The smaller the
better. Also everyone else needs to use public transportation as much as
possible.
Rodney
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On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 09:55:17 -0600, rodney <rodney@mailinator.com>
wrote:
>On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 10:35:41 -0500, BigJohnson wrote:
>
>> Better think that though through a bet longer. Take a look at the
>> EPA figures for both. Then get a drive home price for both. The
>> $6,000 or more it will cost to drive home the hybrid v the V6
>> will buy ALL of the gas you will used in the V6 for the first
>> five years based on the difference let alone make up the
>> difference between the two. For the average new car buyer the
>> hybrids are a big looser when one considers the average new car
>> buyer replaces their car with another new car every three to four
>> years in the US. Even if you do keep the hybrid longer the
>> $4,000 battery replacement cost will run the V6 for another four
>> years. Now if it is one that can afford the extra fuel cost to
>> run a hybrid to save the world, be my guest. Personally I hope
>> more buyers chose hybrids, that will leave more gas for those of
>> us are happy driving our high powered RWD V8 cars that only get
>> 25 MPG ;)
>>
>>
>> mike hunt
>
>I think everyone except me should drive hybrid cars. The smaller the
>better. Also everyone else needs to use public transportation as much as
>possible.
>
>Rodney
><snip>
Not everyone, just 80% of the population.
but the first that should take public transportation would be anyone
driving a Toyota Corolla. (Don't know what it is but I've seen some
frikken insane maneuvers and general stupid driving in that crowd).
BigJohnson@mailcity.com wrote:
> Your $800 fuel saving example proves the case that it will take
Pick the lowest of the three price spreads I posted, to try and keep your
point. For someone running exclusively on highway, the proper vehicle
would be the four cylinder Escape. For my mileage, use the $1111 figure.
> Don't forget to factor in the inevitable $4,000 battery replacement cost,
> a few years down the line, into that
Aftermarket costs for the batteries are currently closer to $1200.
Since the battery is under warranty for 10 years/150,000 miles, I won't
worry about it for a little while longer.
> equation as well. Another point to consider is the techs trained
> to work on hybrids earn another $10 an hour when they work on
That seems a little odd, since they don't charge any higher rate when
working on it.
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5
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