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Old 06-14-2005, 00:02   #1 (permalink)
tom
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Re: tom fails basic electricity

you see, that is your problem. you do not understand automotive systems.
when the diodes in an alternators voltage regulator circuit short out, they
act just like a voltage regulator in a 60's car. they will drain the
battery. but then since you are a god and know everything and are never
wrong, you must be correct and all the alternators that have been changed
due to draining the battery were actually just money thrown away, and the
problem fixed itself after that money was wasted.
<formoco@sklt.net> wrote in message
news:im1v91hpq4sqthf52o142851mfonpq1ui8@4ax.com...
> Path:
>

edtnps82!newsfeed2.telusplanet.net!newsfeed.telus.net!edtnps84.POSTED!53ab27
50!not-for-mail
> From: formoco@sklt.net
> Newsgroups: alt.autos.ford
> Subject: Re: 1992 Towncar (Battery problems)
> Message-ID: <ke1v915v50hhr8u2ghlvaocdvnchk0elr4@4ax.com>
> References:
> <9622d80112d7508610b13096b7f2dfcf@localhost.talkaboutautos.com>
> <%kHne.14432$w21.4763@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
> <bf24294dfd261487cfd33cb5d9bb5f0e@localhost.talkaboutautos.com>
> <iOJne.5093$HP1.221@fe08.lga>
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> Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 22:24:55 GMT
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> MDT)
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 16:24:55 MDT
> Xref: news.telusplanet.net alt.autos.ford:228583
>
> On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:16:32 -0400, "tom" <tjctransport@optonline.net>
> wrote:
>
> >have your alternator checked. there are diodes in it that if they burn

out,
> >will drain the battery when sitting
> >"Turkeybone" <doverton@nospam.evansville.net> wrote in message
> >news:bf24294dfd261487cfd33cb5d9bb5f0e@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...
> >> I forgot to say that the battery goes dead when the car is off.
> >>

> >

> LMFAO
> tom ya ****ed up again
> it wont drain your batteries
> LMFAO
> the diodes rectify the power off the winding
> and they are connected to the winding
> YA FOCKTARD
> besides
> all ciruciuts are OPEN ya tard
> its called a SWITCH
> as in ya SWITCH it OFF when ya turn the key
>
>
> the guy has a parasitic drain
>
> please understand the system before ya flap off
>
> hurc ast



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Old 06-14-2005, 00:02   #2 (permalink)
formoco@sklt.net
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Posts: n/a
Re: tom fails basic electricity

On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:37:34 -0400, "tom" <tjctransport@optonline.net>
wrote:

>you see, that is your problem. you do not understand automotive systems.
>when the diodes in an alternators voltage regulator circuit short out, they
>act just like a voltage regulator in a 60's car. they will drain the
>battery. but then since you are a god and know everything and are never
>wrong, you must be correct and all the alternators that have been changed
>due to draining the battery were actually just money thrown away, and the
>problem fixed itself after that money was wasted.


pssssssst
you need a load to cause drain
tom lmfao
how can a coil which is open cause a drain when not spinning




LMFAO


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Old 06-14-2005, 00:03   #3 (permalink)
formoco@sklt.net
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Posts: n/a
Re: tom fails basic electricity

On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:27:45 -0400, "Michael Bowden"
<mbowden@execulink.com> wrote:

>As has already been stated, "of course diodes never fail shorted, right" ,
>does this answer your question?
>


so where is the load??
LMFAO
field voltage in new cars is controlled by the pcm


case closed

unless 1960 comes back
LMFAO


hurc ast
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Old 06-14-2005, 00:03   #4 (permalink)
Backyard Mechanic
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Posts: n/a
Re: tom fails basic electricity

Well, almost... not quite.

This is not 'just' automotives but it aint just basic electricity
either..

The normal mode of failure in a solid state power switching device is
short, then open.

This is because the barrier between the "n" and "p" diode elements has
been punctured, (for want of a better term, it used to be called "punch-
through") usually by a voltage difference higher than design specs.. like
a voltage spike or surge ( can happen if you remove battery cable while
running. Contamination, either during mfr or by atmospheric incursion
can also attribute.

Once it shorts, it overheats then, almost instantly, "burns out" or
opens. But SOMETIMES there will be a residual path through the device or
a high resistance short. It wont burn out completely because the current
is limited by the resistance to the point where the substrate dissipates
the heat generated.

What you're looking for is between a .2 and .5 amp draw with key off, is
my guess.



"tom" <tjctransport@optonline.net> wrote in
news:0DNne.2778$hg.189@fe12.lga:

> you see, that is your problem. you do not understand automotive
> systems. when the diodes in an alternators voltage regulator circuit
> short out, they act just like a voltage regulator in a 60's car. they
> will drain the battery. but then since you are a god and know
> everything and are never wrong, you must be correct and all the
> alternators that have been changed due to draining the battery were
> actually just money thrown away, and the problem fixed itself after
> that money was wasted.


>> >have your alternator checked. there are diodes in it that if they
>> >burn

> out,
>> >will drain the battery when sitting
>> >"Turkeybone" <doverton@nospam.evansville.net> wrote in message
>> >news:bf24294dfd261487cfd33cb5d9bb5f0e@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...
>> >> I forgot to say that the battery goes dead when the car is off.
>> >>
>> >

>> LMFAO
>> tom ya ****ed up again
>> it wont drain your batteries
>> LMFAO
>> the diodes rectify the power off the winding
>> and they are connected to the winding
>> YA FOCKTARD
>> besides
>> all ciruciuts are OPEN ya tard
>> its called a SWITCH
>> as in ya SWITCH it OFF when ya turn the key
>>
>>
>> the guy has a parasitic drain
>>
>> please understand the system before ya flap off



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Old 06-14-2005, 00:03   #5 (permalink)
Bob Urz
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: tom fails basic electricity



formoco@sklt.net wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:27:45 -0400, "Michael Bowden"
> <mbowden@execulink.com> wrote:
>
>
>>As has already been stated, "of course diodes never fail shorted, right" ,
>>does this answer your question?
>>

>
>
> so where is the load??
> LMFAO
> field voltage in new cars is controlled by the pcm


The diodes on the load side of the alternator are on the stator.
The alternator is a three phase type with a power diode pair for
each phase (full wave rectifier). If one of these diode pairs short on
any phase of the stator, there is a direct path to ground through these
shorted stator diodes. These diodes are hard wired in and there is no
break in the circuit if the car is off (other than high current fusible
link/mega fuse). There is no current flow if the diodes are intact
(non running car). If any phase pair is shorted, the current flow will
be from the battery through the shorted diodes to ground. I this case,
the "LOAD" is the shorted pair of stator diodes. Does it happen often?
no. But its possible.

Bob



>
>
> case closed
>
> unless 1960 comes back
> LMFAO
>
>
> hurc ast


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Old 06-14-2005, 00:04   #6 (permalink)
nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca
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Posts: n/a
Re: tom fails basic electricity

On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 01:21:50 GMT, formoco@sklt.net wrote:

>On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:37:34 -0400, "tom" <tjctransport@optonline.net>
>wrote:
>
>>you see, that is your problem. you do not understand automotive systems.
>>when the diodes in an alternators voltage regulator circuit short out, they
>>act just like a voltage regulator in a 60's car. they will drain the
>>battery. but then since you are a god and know everything and are never
>>wrong, you must be correct and all the alternators that have been changed
>>due to draining the battery were actually just money thrown away, and the
>>problem fixed itself after that money was wasted.

>
>pssssssst
>you need a load to cause drain
>tom lmfao
>how can a coil which is open cause a drain when not spinning


What coil is open?
Face it "kid" you don't know SQUAT about auto-electric - or even cars
in general.
>
>
>
>
>LMFAO
>


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Old 06-14-2005, 00:04   #7 (permalink)
nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: tom fails basic electricity

On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 01:47:07 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
<pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote:

>Well, almost... not quite.
>
>This is not 'just' automotives but it aint just basic electricity
>either..
>
>The normal mode of failure in a solid state power switching device is
>short, then open.
>
>This is because the barrier between the "n" and "p" diode elements has
>been punctured, (for want of a better term, it used to be called "punch-
>through") usually by a voltage difference higher than design specs.. like
>a voltage spike or surge ( can happen if you remove battery cable while
>running. Contamination, either during mfr or by atmospheric incursion
>can also attribute.
>
>Once it shorts, it overheats then, almost instantly, "burns out" or
>opens. But SOMETIMES there will be a residual path through the device or
>a high resistance short. It wont burn out completely because the current
>is limited by the resistance to the point where the substrate dissipates
>the heat generated.
>
>What you're looking for is between a .2 and .5 amp draw with key off, is
>my guess.
>


Close. It can be as high as 3.5 to 4 amps with a "leaky" diode - and
believe me, they do not always fail open. With a diode rated for 120
amps (with a sizeable reserve) and a stator segment drawing even 60,
they can fail shorted and NOT evaporate. I've seen my share in 38
years.
>
>
>"tom" <tjctransport@optonline.net> wrote in
>news:0DNne.2778$hg.189@fe12.lga:
>
>> you see, that is your problem. you do not understand automotive
>> systems. when the diodes in an alternators voltage regulator circuit
>> short out, they act just like a voltage regulator in a 60's car. they
>> will drain the battery. but then since you are a god and know
>> everything and are never wrong, you must be correct and all the
>> alternators that have been changed due to draining the battery were
>> actually just money thrown away, and the problem fixed itself after
>> that money was wasted.

>
>>> >have your alternator checked. there are diodes in it that if they
>>> >burn

>> out,
>>> >will drain the battery when sitting
>>> >"Turkeybone" <doverton@nospam.evansville.net> wrote in message
>>> >news:bf24294dfd261487cfd33cb5d9bb5f0e@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...
>>> >> I forgot to say that the battery goes dead when the car is off.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> LMFAO
>>> tom ya ****ed up again
>>> it wont drain your batteries
>>> LMFAO
>>> the diodes rectify the power off the winding
>>> and they are connected to the winding
>>> YA FOCKTARD
>>> besides
>>> all ciruciuts are OPEN ya tard
>>> its called a SWITCH
>>> as in ya SWITCH it OFF when ya turn the key
>>>
>>>
>>> the guy has a parasitic drain
>>>
>>> please understand the system before ya flap off

>


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Old 06-14-2005, 00:04   #8 (permalink)
glover_73@hotmail.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: tom fails basic electricity

On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 15:59:42 -0400, nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca
wrote:

>On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 01:47:07 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
><pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote:
>
>>Well, almost... not quite.
>>
>>This is not 'just' automotives but it aint just basic electricity
>>either..
>>
>>The normal mode of failure in a solid state power switching device is
>>short, then open.
>>
>>This is because the barrier between the "n" and "p" diode elements has
>>been punctured, (for want of a better term, it used to be called "punch-
>>through") usually by a voltage difference higher than design specs.. like
>>a voltage spike or surge ( can happen if you remove battery cable while
>>running. Contamination, either during mfr or by atmospheric incursion
>>can also attribute.
>>
>>Once it shorts, it overheats then, almost instantly, "burns out" or
>>opens. But SOMETIMES there will be a residual path through the device or
>>a high resistance short. It wont burn out completely because the current
>>is limited by the resistance to the point where the substrate dissipates
>>the heat generated.
>>
>>What you're looking for is between a .2 and .5 amp draw with key off, is
>>my guess.
>>

>
>Close. It can be as high as 3.5 to 4 amps with a "leaky" diode - and
>believe me, they do not always fail open. With a diode rated for 120
>amps (with a sizeable reserve) and a stator segment drawing even 60,
>they can fail shorted and NOT evaporate. I've seen my share in 38
>years.
>>

>

LMFAO

bullcrap
as a matter of fact you better learn what a diode does


hurc ast

hurc ast
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Old 06-14-2005, 00:04   #9 (permalink)
nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: tom fails basic electricity

On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 20:00:58 GMT, glover_73@hotmail.com wrote:

>On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 15:59:42 -0400, nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 01:47:07 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
>><pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Well, almost... not quite.
>>>
>>>This is not 'just' automotives but it aint just basic electricity
>>>either..
>>>
>>>The normal mode of failure in a solid state power switching device is
>>>short, then open.
>>>
>>>This is because the barrier between the "n" and "p" diode elements has
>>>been punctured, (for want of a better term, it used to be called "punch-
>>>through") usually by a voltage difference higher than design specs.. like
>>>a voltage spike or surge ( can happen if you remove battery cable while
>>>running. Contamination, either during mfr or by atmospheric incursion
>>>can also attribute.
>>>
>>>Once it shorts, it overheats then, almost instantly, "burns out" or
>>>opens. But SOMETIMES there will be a residual path through the device or
>>>a high resistance short. It wont burn out completely because the current
>>>is limited by the resistance to the point where the substrate dissipates
>>>the heat generated.
>>>
>>>What you're looking for is between a .2 and .5 amp draw with key off, is
>>>my guess.
>>>

>>
>>Close. It can be as high as 3.5 to 4 amps with a "leaky" diode - and
>>believe me, they do not always fail open. With a diode rated for 120
>>amps (with a sizeable reserve) and a stator segment drawing even 60,
>>they can fail shorted and NOT evaporate. I've seen my share in 38
>>years.
>>>

>>

>LMFAO
>
>bullcrap
>as a matter of fact you better learn what a diode does


I know very well what a diode does. I even have a pretty good idea
how. I also know that they DO fail, and how. A diode can be used as a
rectifier, as a switch, as a detector, a light source, and a light
detector among many other things. I have used them for all the above
in many different projects - Copper Oxide, Selenium, Germanium, Galium
Arsenide, Silicon, and vacuum tube(heated and cold cathode type)
types.I've even made a few (crystal detectors) back when you were
still a gleam in your Daddy's eye.
>
>
>hurc ast
>
>hurc ast


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Old 06-14-2005, 00:04   #10 (permalink)
international444@hotmail.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: tom fails basic electricity

On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 23:07:15 -0400, nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca
wrote:

>On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 20:00:58 GMT, glover_73@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 15:59:42 -0400, nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 01:47:07 GMT, Backyard Mechanic
>>><pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Well, almost... not quite.
>>>>
>>>>This is not 'just' automotives but it aint just basic electricity
>>>>either..
>>>>
>>>>The normal mode of failure in a solid state power switching device is
>>>>short, then open.
>>>>
>>>>This is because the barrier between the "n" and "p" diode elements has
>>>>been punctured, (for want of a better term, it used to be called "punch-
>>>>through") usually by a voltage difference higher than design specs.. like
>>>>a voltage spike or surge ( can happen if you remove battery cable while
>>>>running. Contamination, either during mfr or by atmospheric incursion
>>>>can also attribute.
>>>>
>>>>Once it shorts, it overheats then, almost instantly, "burns out" or
>>>>opens. But SOMETIMES there will be a residual path through the device or
>>>>a high resistance short. It wont burn out completely because the current
>>>>is limited by the resistance to the point where the substrate dissipates
>>>>the heat generated.
>>>>
>>>>What you're looking for is between a .2 and .5 amp draw with key off, is
>>>>my guess.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Close. It can be as high as 3.5 to 4 amps with a "leaky" diode - and
>>>believe me, they do not always fail open. With a diode rated for 120
>>>amps (with a sizeable reserve) and a stator segment drawing even 60,
>>>they can fail shorted and NOT evaporate. I've seen my share in 38
>>>years.
>>>>
>>>

>>LMFAO
>>
>>bullcrap
>>as a matter of fact you better learn what a diode does

>
>I know very well what a diode does. I even have a pretty good idea
>how. I also know that they DO fail, and how. A diode can be used as a
>rectifier, as a switch, as a detector, a light source, and a light
>detector among many other things. I have used them for all the above
>in many different projects - Copper Oxide, Selenium, Germanium, Galium
>Arsenide, Silicon, and vacuum tube(heated and cold cathode type)
>types.I've even made a few (crystal detectors) back when you were
>still a gleam in your Daddy's eye.
>>

>


great
how many electrons do they use in a crystal

lmfao
your on the spot now


hurc a
s
t

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