Dark1

assuming 45 degree F weather, how long SHOULD it take for my engine to warm
itself to the "normal" range on my digi guage?
how about holding it idle @ 2krpm? hard driving from dead cold?
I know my thermostat is operating, but I also replaced my fan clutch with a
mechanical one a while back, which I can see having some effect, but not
much until the thermostat opens.. but it seems to take 10 mins holding it @
2krpm, or ~ 3-4 miles of pretty hard driving..
too long?

Paul of Dayon

You should be able to drive within a few seconds of starting that car. If
it won't idle, check the IAC (it sits on the throttle body and provides air
at idle). It is either dirty or broken.

If you are waiting for heat from the heater, there might be a problem but if
that is OK and the display just doesn't move, no big deal. There is a bolt
thingie on the top of the engine that is used while filling the coolant. It
is to be loosened to vent air from the system. If you haven't vented it -
an air bubble can cause what you describe.

Your loose PCV (other post) should have no long term effects since it is now
back where it belongs.

I hope this helps -

PoD



"Dark1" <betterask4it@ifyouwantit.com> wrote in message
news:u1K7f.70761$Hs.69132@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
> assuming 45 degree F weather, how long SHOULD it take for my engine to
> warm itself to the "normal" range on my digi guage?
> how about holding it idle @ 2krpm? hard driving from dead cold?
> I know my thermostat is operating, but I also replaced my fan clutch with
> a mechanical one a while back, which I can see having some effect, but not
> much until the thermostat opens.. but it seems to take 10 mins holding it
> @ 2krpm, or ~ 3-4 miles of pretty hard driving..
> too long?
>

Dark1

There is no drivability issue from it, it is more of a matter of getting
heat in the car..
I get no heat until the display moves up a notch, which can take several
minutes of reving it high to get it to move... even on that first notch the
heat is pathetic. Mostly the problem is in the winter, I might rev high
5mins before it's even begun to put out heat... if I sit there and let it
idle for me remaining 20 it might never make it to the middle..if it's below
20 out forget it, the inside of the car just isn't going to get warm in that
25min.. that's alot of gas I'm burning to get it to where I'm not shivering
anymore (talking below freezing now).. Do you think the mechanical clutch vs
changing for a thermal, would have a significant impact? perhaps working out
an actual coolant ratio instead of my usual, "the hydrometer says colder
than it's likey to get" method: would make a big difference? I know it's
supposed to be 50/50 theoretically, but it rarely ever gets sub-zero or
anything here, so I don't concern myself too much.. freezing isn't really an
issue, bout I know antifreeze is actually worse as a coolant than water so
maybe a 70/30 af/water mix would make ir warm much faster?
and BTW, yes I know about the bolt to vent the air out, this was done
properly, and the water pump is little over a year old, so I doubt it's worn
to the point to cause a problem..

sorry for the incoherent post.. just got off work and I'm bout to snooze on
the keyboard ;)

"Paul of Dayon" <plus1111@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tuK7f.3321$Kv.295@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
> You should be able to drive within a few seconds of starting that car. If
> it won't idle, check the IAC (it sits on the throttle body and provides
> air at idle). It is either dirty or broken.
>
> If you are waiting for heat from the heater, there might be a problem but
> if that is OK and the display just doesn't move, no big deal. There is a
> bolt thingie on the top of the engine that is used while filling the
> coolant. It is to be loosened to vent air from the system. If you
> haven't vented it - an air bubble can cause what you describe.
>
> Your loose PCV (other post) should have no long term effects since it is
> now back where it belongs.
>
> I hope this helps -
>
> PoD
>
>
>
> "Dark1" <betterask4it@ifyouwantit.com> wrote in message
> news:u1K7f.70761$Hs.69132@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
>> assuming 45 degree F weather, how long SHOULD it take for my engine to
>> warm itself to the "normal" range on my digi guage?
>> how about holding it idle @ 2krpm? hard driving from dead cold?
>> I know my thermostat is operating, but I also replaced my fan clutch with
>> a mechanical one a while back, which I can see having some effect, but
>> not much until the thermostat opens.. but it seems to take 10 mins
>> holding it @ 2krpm, or ~ 3-4 miles of pretty hard driving..
>> too long?
>>
>
>

Paul of Dayon

Incoherent is OK, I often am too. I have a '93 Cougar, basically same as
your Bird. It makes heat at the first notch and rises quickly. It is the
best heating car I've driven - A/C performance is a different issue (poor).
I have heat within a few blocks of starting out, as a rule.

I don't think the fan clutch would make that big a difference - I am
fighting with a new loud one on my CV right now and it heats fine. I have a
feeling the thermostat is goofy. I don't think replacing it in that car is
a bad job. I think it is supposed to have a 195 degree stat. If you decide
to do the stat - get a good one or even a real Ford one. Cheapies stick
open and give symptoms exactly like you describe. Stick with at least 50/50
on coolant for best boilover/rust/corrosion/freeze performance. I have been
told that some folks have used pure undiluted coolant and found it jelled up
and not flowing but I don't have proof.

Hope it helps - get some sleep. I gotta go buy tires (joy, joy)

PoD


"Dark1" <betterask4it@ifyouwantit.com> wrote in message
news:XeL7f.70770$Hs.47175@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
> There is no drivability issue from it, it is more of a matter of getting
> heat in the car..
> I get no heat until the display moves up a notch, which can take several
> minutes of reving it high to get it to move... even on that first notch
> the heat is pathetic. Mostly the problem is in the winter, I might rev
> high 5mins before it's even begun to put out heat... if I sit there and
> let it idle for me remaining 20 it might never make it to the middle..if
> it's below 20 out forget it, the inside of the car just isn't going to get
> warm in that 25min.. that's alot of gas I'm burning to get it to where I'm
> not shivering anymore (talking below freezing now).. Do you think the
> mechanical clutch vs changing for a thermal, would have a significant
> impact? perhaps working out an actual coolant ratio instead of my usual,
> "the hydrometer says colder than it's likey to get" method: would make a
> big difference? I know it's supposed to be 50/50 theoretically, but it
> rarely ever gets sub-zero or anything here, so I don't concern myself too
> much.. freezing isn't really an issue, bout I know antifreeze is actually
> worse as a coolant than water so maybe a 70/30 af/water mix would make ir
> warm much faster?
> and BTW, yes I know about the bolt to vent the air out, this was done
> properly, and the water pump is little over a year old, so I doubt it's
> worn to the point to cause a problem..
>
> sorry for the incoherent post.. just got off work and I'm bout to snooze
> on the keyboard ;)
>
> "Paul of Dayon" <plus1111@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:tuK7f.3321$Kv.295@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
>> You should be able to drive within a few seconds of starting that car.
>> If it won't idle, check the IAC (it sits on the throttle body and
>> provides air at idle). It is either dirty or broken.
>>
>> If you are waiting for heat from the heater, there might be a problem but
>> if that is OK and the display just doesn't move, no big deal. There is a
>> bolt thingie on the top of the engine that is used while filling the
>> coolant. It is to be loosened to vent air from the system. If you
>> haven't vented it - an air bubble can cause what you describe.
>>
>> Your loose PCV (other post) should have no long term effects since it is
>> now back where it belongs.
>>
>> I hope this helps -
>>
>> PoD
>>
>>
>>
>> "Dark1" <betterask4it@ifyouwantit.com> wrote in message
>> news:u1K7f.70761$Hs.69132@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
>>> assuming 45 degree F weather, how long SHOULD it take for my engine to
>>> warm itself to the "normal" range on my digi guage?
>>> how about holding it idle @ 2krpm? hard driving from dead cold?
>>> I know my thermostat is operating, but I also replaced my fan clutch
>>> with a mechanical one a while back, which I can see having some effect,
>>> but not much until the thermostat opens.. but it seems to take 10 mins
>>> holding it @ 2krpm, or ~ 3-4 miles of pretty hard driving..
>>> too long?
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Backyard Mechanic

90 times out of 100 that's a thermostat problem.
The key to this is whether your engine temp gets close to the same level
in the cold as it does in the summer. If it doesn't, it's almost always
the t-stat.
Should be a 195deg. Should have no bleeder hole in it, and I'm trying to
recall if it has a rubber gasket. It may need one, depend on stat
housing.

I've had 2 93's 3.8 and no problem in them kicking out warm air in just a
few blocks.

And, Paul, next spring, get on here and ping me (local call, I'll walk
you through it).... no excuse for poor A/c in those cars... both of mine
and my kids 90 cougar would freeze ya out.



"Paul of Dayon" <plus1111@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in
news:OuL7f.3325$Kv.2498@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net:

> Incoherent is OK, I often am too. I have a '93 Cougar, basically same
> as your Bird. It makes heat at the first notch and rises quickly. It
> is the best heating car I've driven - A/C performance is a different
> issue (poor). I have heat within a few blocks of starting out, as a
> rule.
>
> I don't think the fan clutch would make that big a difference - I am
> fighting with a new loud one on my CV right now and it heats fine. I
> have a feeling the thermostat is goofy. I don't think replacing it in
> that car is a bad job. I think it is supposed to have a 195 degree
> stat. If you decide to do the stat - get a good one or even a real
> Ford one. Cheapies stick open and give symptoms exactly like you
> describe. Stick with at least 50/50 on coolant for best
> boilover/rust/corrosion/freeze performance. I have been told that
> some folks have used pure undiluted coolant and found it jelled up and
> not flowing but I don't have proof.
>
> Hope it helps - get some sleep. I gotta go buy tires (joy, joy)
>
> PoD
>
>
> "Dark1" <betterask4it@ifyouwantit.com> wrote in message
> news:XeL7f.70770$Hs.47175@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
>> There is no drivability issue from it, it is more of a matter of
>> getting heat in the car..
>> I get no heat until the display moves up a notch, which can take
>> several minutes of reving it high to get it to move... even on that
>> first notch the heat is pathetic. Mostly the problem is in the
>> winter, I might rev high 5mins before it's even begun to put out
>> heat... if I sit there and let it idle for me remaining 20 it might
>> never make it to the middle..if it's below 20 out forget it, the
>> inside of the car just isn't going to get warm in that 25min.. that's
>> alot of gas I'm burning to get it to where I'm not shivering anymore
>> (talking below freezing now).. Do you think the mechanical clutch vs
>> changing for a thermal, would have a significant impact? perhaps
>> working out an actual coolant ratio instead of my usual, "the
>> hydrometer says colder than it's likey to get" method: would make a
>> big difference? I know it's supposed to be 50/50 theoretically, but
>> it rarely ever gets sub-zero or anything here, so I don't concern
>> myself too much.. freezing isn't really an issue, bout I know
>> antifreeze is actually worse as a coolant than water so maybe a 70/30
>> af/water mix would make ir warm much faster?
>> and BTW, yes I know about the bolt to vent the air out, this was done
>> properly, and the water pump is little over a year old, so I doubt
>> it's worn to the point to cause a problem..
>>
>> sorry for the incoherent post.. just got off work and I'm bout to
>> snooze on the keyboard ;)
>>
>> "Paul of Dayon" <plus1111@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:tuK7f.3321$Kv.295@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
>>> You should be able to drive within a few seconds of starting that
>>> car. If it won't idle, check the IAC (it sits on the throttle body
>>> and provides air at idle). It is either dirty or broken.
>>>
>>> If you are waiting for heat from the heater, there might be a
>>> problem but if that is OK and the display just doesn't move, no big
>>> deal. There is a bolt thingie on the top of the engine that is used
>>> while filling the coolant. It is to be loosened to vent air from
>>> the system. If you haven't vented it - an air bubble can cause what
>>> you describe.
>>>
>>> Your loose PCV (other post) should have no long term effects since
>>> it is now back where it belongs.
>>>
>>> I hope this helps -
>>>
>>> PoD
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Dark1" <betterask4it@ifyouwantit.com> wrote in message
>>> news:u1K7f.70761$Hs.69132@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
>>>> assuming 45 degree F weather, how long SHOULD it take for my engine
>>>> to warm itself to the "normal" range on my digi guage?
>>>> how about holding it idle @ 2krpm? hard driving from dead cold?
>>>> I know my thermostat is operating, but I also replaced my fan
>>>> clutch with a mechanical one a while back, which I can see having
>>>> some effect, but not much until the thermostat opens.. but it seems
>>>> to take 10 mins holding it @ 2krpm, or ~ 3-4 miles of pretty hard
>>>> driving.. too long?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Paul of Dayon

Thanks Backyard. I'll holler in the spring. I only have 2 complaints with
that car, poor A/C cooling and awful heater-A/C fan noise. It's been odd
since new and dealers say it's OK. Air flow isn't what I'd expect, either.
I suspect it's all related. Compressor and refrigerant seem fine.

PoD


"Backyard Mechanic" <pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96FBB3EAA30DFpettyfogery@207.115.63.158...
> 90 times out of 100 that's a thermostat problem.
> The key to this is whether your engine temp gets close to the same level
> in the cold as it does in the summer. If it doesn't, it's almost always
> the t-stat.
> Should be a 195deg. Should have no bleeder hole in it, and I'm trying to
> recall if it has a rubber gasket. It may need one, depend on stat
> housing.
>
> I've had 2 93's 3.8 and no problem in them kicking out warm air in just a
> few blocks.
>
> And, Paul, next spring, get on here and ping me (local call, I'll walk
> you through it).... no excuse for poor A/c in those cars... both of mine
> and my kids 90 cougar would freeze ya out.
>
>
>
> "Paul of Dayon" <plus1111@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:OuL7f.3325$Kv.2498@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net:
>
>> Incoherent is OK, I often am too. I have a '93 Cougar, basically same
>> as your Bird. It makes heat at the first notch and rises quickly. It
>> is the best heating car I've driven - A/C performance is a different
>> issue (poor). I have heat within a few blocks of starting out, as a
>> rule.
>>
>> I don't think the fan clutch would make that big a difference - I am
>> fighting with a new loud one on my CV right now and it heats fine. I
>> have a feeling the thermostat is goofy. I don't think replacing it in
>> that car is a bad job. I think it is supposed to have a 195 degree
>> stat. If you decide to do the stat - get a good one or even a real
>> Ford one. Cheapies stick open and give symptoms exactly like you
>> describe. Stick with at least 50/50 on coolant for best
>> boilover/rust/corrosion/freeze performance. I have been told that
>> some folks have used pure undiluted coolant and found it jelled up and
>> not flowing but I don't have proof.
>>
>> Hope it helps - get some sleep. I gotta go buy tires (joy, joy)
>>
>> PoD
>>
>>
>> "Dark1" <betterask4it@ifyouwantit.com> wrote in message
>> news:XeL7f.70770$Hs.47175@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
>>> There is no drivability issue from it, it is more of a matter of
>>> getting heat in the car..
>>> I get no heat until the display moves up a notch, which can take
>>> several minutes of reving it high to get it to move... even on that
>>> first notch the heat is pathetic. Mostly the problem is in the
>>> winter, I might rev high 5mins before it's even begun to put out
>>> heat... if I sit there and let it idle for me remaining 20 it might
>>> never make it to the middle..if it's below 20 out forget it, the
>>> inside of the car just isn't going to get warm in that 25min.. that's
>>> alot of gas I'm burning to get it to where I'm not shivering anymore
>>> (talking below freezing now).. Do you think the mechanical clutch vs
>>> changing for a thermal, would have a significant impact? perhaps
>>> working out an actual coolant ratio instead of my usual, "the
>>> hydrometer says colder than it's likey to get" method: would make a
>>> big difference? I know it's supposed to be 50/50 theoretically, but
>>> it rarely ever gets sub-zero or anything here, so I don't concern
>>> myself too much.. freezing isn't really an issue, bout I know
>>> antifreeze is actually worse as a coolant than water so maybe a 70/30
>>> af/water mix would make ir warm much faster?
>>> and BTW, yes I know about the bolt to vent the air out, this was done
>>> properly, and the water pump is little over a year old, so I doubt
>>> it's worn to the point to cause a problem..
>>>
>>> sorry for the incoherent post.. just got off work and I'm bout to
>>> snooze on the keyboard ;)
>>>
>>> "Paul of Dayon" <plus1111@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:tuK7f.3321$Kv.295@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
>>>> You should be able to drive within a few seconds of starting that
>>>> car. If it won't idle, check the IAC (it sits on the throttle body
>>>> and provides air at idle). It is either dirty or broken.
>>>>
>>>> If you are waiting for heat from the heater, there might be a
>>>> problem but if that is OK and the display just doesn't move, no big
>>>> deal. There is a bolt thingie on the top of the engine that is used
>>>> while filling the coolant. It is to be loosened to vent air from
>>>> the system. If you haven't vented it - an air bubble can cause what
>>>> you describe.
>>>>
>>>> Your loose PCV (other post) should have no long term effects since
>>>> it is now back where it belongs.
>>>>
>>>> I hope this helps -
>>>>
>>>> PoD
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Dark1" <betterask4it@ifyouwantit.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:u1K7f.70761$Hs.69132@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
>>>>> assuming 45 degree F weather, how long SHOULD it take for my engine
>>>>> to warm itself to the "normal" range on my digi guage?
>>>>> how about holding it idle @ 2krpm? hard driving from dead cold?
>>>>> I know my thermostat is operating, but I also replaced my fan
>>>>> clutch with a mechanical one a while back, which I can see having
>>>>> some effect, but not much until the thermostat opens.. but it seems
>>>>> to take 10 mins holding it @ 2krpm, or ~ 3-4 miles of pretty hard
>>>>> driving.. too long?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>